It was surprising to me to see a Wisconsin farmer singing the praises of Mr. Trump’s policies. From WPR:
Another Wisconsin speaker in Tuesday’s event, Cris Peterson, is a dairy farmer from Grantsburg and a member of the University of Wisconsin’s Board of Regents. She praised Trump’s trade policy and said her farm and others have seen conditions improve after a period of sustained low milk prices that drove hundreds out of business.
Why am I skeptical? From Feedstuffs:
The Midwest, Northwest and Southeast were hardest hit, representing 80% of the filings across the U.S. More than 50% of the Chapter 12 filings were in the 13-state Midwest region, coming in at nearly 300 filings, a 23% increase. Wisconsin led the nation with 69 filings, followed by 38 in Nebraska. Georgia and Minnesota each had 36 filings.
Graphically:
Maybe the Petersen’s benefitted from the government’s largesse. AgWeb notes that 2020’s record farm sector income jump:
Part of the hike may be because of government payments, which USDA says are at a record.
The forecast of $37.2 billion for 2020 is a $14.7 billion increase in government payments. The full Coronavirus Food Assistance Program (CFAP) amount of $16 billion and nearly $6 billion in the Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) loans are included as well.
A dairy farmer is praising Trump??? The BEA doesn’t have data for 2019 yet, but the 2017 and 2018 numbers for dairy farmers in Wisconsin don’t look all that great to me. Table SAINC45 Farm Income and Expenses shows the dairy sector had cash receipts of $5.4B in 2017 and only $5.0B in 2018 (in current dollars). The big money happened during the Obama years (2014 = $6.7B.
And it’s not just Wisconsin dairy farmers that did poorly in 2018. Nationally dairy farm cash receipts went from $37.9B to $35.2B (current dollars). Again, the best years were under Obama with 2014 at $49.3B.
https://www.npr.org/2019/11/10/778097948/farm-bankruptcies-surge
How does that interview help your argument? Sounds to me like he’s saying farmers are so dumb that Trump can play them for suckers and they’ll still be with him because they believe he’s in there fighting for them, all the evidence to the contrary.
MARTIN: So why are we seeing this increase in farmers filing for bankruptcy? Is there one cause or several?
MOORE: It is a multiple of factors. Well, you’ve got to look over the last six years. Net farm income six years ago was around $132 billion – kind of a macro number. If you take away the government payments that have been big help for that, it’s down around $69 billion. So we’ve lost nearly half net farm income. Some of that’s markets. Some of that is some of the trade wars that have been going on, certainly in the last couple of years. But the bottom line is it’s just a lot of different factors that go into what is basically a commodity market.
It seems to me that he is saying what Menzie has told us. Now we know Bruce Hall has never grasped this stuff when Menzie notes it. But since he provided this NPR link – we can ask did he read his own link? Given his past history I doubt it.
This is strange……. Latinas pretending they are soybean farmers in red hats. This method acting stuff is getting crazy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfZcsbDU_vk
Soybean farmers for donald trump!!!! Remember, it’s sexist white males who didn’t vote for Hillary!!!! We are to blame!!!! Hurray!!!! Hurray!!!! Hurray bigoted pig men!!!!!
*This message brought to you by and sponsored by “You Can’t Blame Rural White Women Voters For Trump Winning” LLC and Nate Silver’s “Polling Poor Rural People Is A Pain and a Hassle” LLC.
Farmers don’t necessarily blame Trump for their financial troubles. They know that he does not control their destiny, nor do they want him to, as the Democrats might if they run a socialist command economy.
They like him because of his stance on social issues, making America great, individual freedom, his humbleness and his grasp of reality, especially contrasted against the Progressives and the incompetence mentis of Joe Biden.
sammy: Or maybe they like him because the US government doled out billions to them in plant/animal-version of welfare (all the while trying to cut SNAP).
That too.
His “humbleness”? Carry on, Sammy.
@ noneconomist
You made me chuckle pretty good on that one. I think one of my favorite Econbrowser regulars macroduck once referred to something similar to this as “the wrong dunghill to die on”.
sammy socialist command economy
You’d be hard pressed to find any Democrat who is as in love with a command economy as Trump. Trump is the one who is against free trade and seems to think the US government knows how much steel should be produced. Or how much coal is produced. Or how much oil is produced. And brags about invoking various Executive powers to direct industries to produce specific quantities of various commodities.
his humbleness
That’s a first. I’ve never heard anyone describe Donald Trump as being humble. I assume you are being ironic here.
grasp of reality
More irony? Or do you also believe in plane loads of anarchists in dark clothes coming to attack the RNC convention?
incompetence
Speaking of incompetence, how many times has Trump run his companies into the ground and gone bankrupt? He’s a failed businessman, a failed President, a failed husband, a failed father who has an unnatural affection for his daughter and now we learn that he’s also a failed commander-in-chief.
Now now, 2slug, I believe that Trump himself described himself as “humble,” so of course it must be true!
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/14/donald-trump-coronavirus-farmer-bailouts-359932
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/07/us/politics/virus-trump-aid-farmers.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/27/us/politics/coronavirus-stimulus-bill-farmers.html
https://www.wsj.com/articles/usda-sets-plans-for-16-billion-in-new-aid-to-farmers-11564065120
https://www.wsj.com/articles/president-trump-announces-19-billion-relief-program-for-farmers-11587165759
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/trump-us-farmers-round-funds-trade-war-cushion
https://www.fox9.com/news/green-acres-minnesota-farmers-get-1-billion-in-subsidies-but-checks-also-go-to-city-slickers
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-vowed-to-help-small-farmers-but-heres-where-the-aid-is-really-going-2019-12-03
I tacked on two FOX News links above because I know illiterate sammy likes his news sources dumbed down. I guess sammy doesn’t mind command economies when the central planning welfare is going to white men producing overpriced crops no one wants to buy at the grocery store. These two links below sammy can skip, because they’ve got numbers and tangible facts and stuff, and sammy’s favorite sk*nk Kimberly Guilfoyle isn’t anywhere in these links to yell angrily and gesture her arms around Hitler-esque like that feeds sammy’s “I’m not a beta male” denial.
https://data.ers.usda.gov/reports.aspx?ID=17833
https://www.fapri.missouri.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/2020-June-Update.pdf
To keep things simple for sammy, CoRev, Bruce Hall, Ed Hanson, and assembled idiots, during President Obama’s 8 year term, the annual amount of federal farm welfare never rose above $13 billion. In the last 2 years alone donald trump has spent $59.5 billion on federal farm welfare and it’s a slam dunk we’ll be above $60 billion at the end of this calendar year (again, combining the last 2 years). Probably over $40 billion in federal welfare for 2020 as a single year.
Don’t expect “Princeton”Kopits to make an appearance in this thread. He’d have to say he disagrees with billions of dollars in MAGA welfare for mostly white farmers and that’s not going to get Kopits his once per year 4:00am time slot on FOX Business News when they can’t get any good guests in mid-to-late September. “Princeton”Kopits is strictly prohibited to his hidey-hole whenever Republicans hand out social welfare to white men. He’ll be stuck again on One America News Network, and the sandwiches are really stale in that “OAN” TV studio and excluding Kopits’ Afghan hound and his mother that leaves about 4 people watching.
I should correct myself, Obama’s two 4-year terms. Pardon me, I get worked up. Plus the time pre-MAGA seemed to go faster, so, in MAGA years, it really feels like just one term looking back at it. Or maybe less
https://www.agriculture.com/news/business/farmers-to-get-up-to-250000-each-in-coronavirus-cash-with-more-possible
This has got to stop. If hairdressers can be forced to tough it out, so can farmers. Besides, it’s not how you feel (from having sufficient, affordable food), it’s how you look (from your bi-monthly visits to the hairdresser). And you look marvelous.
Another article where you stopped reading after checking out the headline. Some farm relief is just compassionate policy. Alas – this thing has a very Trump Republican tinge to it. Bailouts for rich farmers is certainly an issue but then Trump sycophants like you usually go for such Trumpian corruption. Then again this should make you happy since you are on the government dole
‘the government will spend $3 billion to buy fruit, vegetables, dairy, and meat, which will then be donated to food banks and other charities.’
No stand in line for your free food. But remember to wear a mask.
@ Bruce Hall
I use a razor I purchase at the supermarket to cut mine. And a hand mirror to check if I got all the whiskers on the back of my head and neck. That’s been true since long before the COVID-19. It’s almost as disgraceful as Barkley Junior’s leather pants.
Don’t tell Junior, ok????
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cTkTEpEYfk
Young men, be advised. Live dammit!!!!!
It’s all for the good. I miss the “old school” barbers, with the old sports magazines, Reader’s Digests, and the Freemason membership certificate hanging on the wall. https://images.app.goo.gl/ue1RFK3CAX5n9pAV6 Telling me how he watches TV in a different room than his wife does, etc. Asking me “Are you really a truck driver?? You don’t look like a truck driver” for the 20th time. Now (if I went, which I don’t) it would be some braindead girl I can’t relate to, trying to give me an erection while she cuts my hair how she wants it to look. PASS. If it ain’t gotta barber pole outside, this old school guy ain’t walkin’ in:
https://images.app.goo.gl/X7m8hxvGZo4JU8J66
“They know that he does not control their destiny, nor do they want him to, as the Democrats might if they run a socialist command economy.”
Well maybe farmers do better in a free trade environment but have you not noticed that Trump has got us full blown in a really stupid trade war. Which is sort of the point of a lot of Menzie’s post. Leave it to a MAGA hat wearing dunce like you to miss the point entirely.
Farm country would not like going back to a pre-New Deal Era without price supports and other subsidies. They are well coddled bur do not seem to understand it. Their work is not easy and would be harder without the true socialism they benefit from. Too bad they are uneducated in analysis without ideological filters. Shoot, even farm roads are a form of true socialism.
In the west, hard to imagine agriculture without reflecting on numerous “largest public works project ever” (choose from many) that dot the landscape. The names alone: Shasta, Grand Coulee, Glen Canyon, Hoover, Oroville, Central Valley Project, California Water Project, Los Angeles Aqueduct, Colorado River Aqueduct, Lake Mead. It’s a near endless list.
For certain, there would be very few pistachios or almonds grown in Bakersfield or raisins in Fresno, or winter vegetables grown in Imperial Valley without federal, state , and local governments expending billions on water and water delivery.
Among big beneficiaries. of course, are the corporate “farmers” who benefit from available water AND a labor force that includes more than a small number of undocumented laborers.
And, as you noted Willie, farmers have also benefited from roads maintained by states and counties, not to forget daily mail delivery, rural schools ( a long time colleague speaks glowingly of her days as one of eight ranch students in a one room school three hours removed from the nearest town).
BTW, speaking of those farm roads, any trip to Boise and surrounding areas is likely subject to delay if you happen to get caught on one of those farm roads now home to plenty of tract homes filled with two and three car garages.
I just wanna know where my Washington cherries went at the grocery store. They were there 6 weeks ago, er something.
“They like him because of his stance on social issues”. What social issues would these be?
Cheating on one’s wife? Being abusive to women in general. Stirring up racism and standing up for the right of white nationalists to kill minorities. Putting Latino children in cages? Insulting soldiers who died for us in battle?
Trump is just a God fearing man he cannot even hold a Bible the right way.
Sammy, I’ve tried and failed to explain the thinking of and as a farmer. Success in their work lives is mostly controlled by nature, and only the fringes impacted by policy. Competition can be fierce and demand fickle when they have bumper crops. Worse their years production is prone to being destroyed within minutes due to nature. Their work is hard and seldom praised by their customers. Their customers seem to accept their absolute reliance on their efforts, while at the same time resenting the need to keep them financially viable.
An example is this apparent intellectual confusion can be found in Menzie’s comment: “Or maybe they like him because the US government doled out billions to them in plant/animal-version of welfare (all the while trying to cut SNAP).” Both of these programs are executed by the US Department of Agriculture, one of our older federal Departments, supporting Farmer and mostly urban communities. USDA was created in 1862, and Lincoln called USDA “The People’s Department.”
What has changed in the urban mind set to in one commenter talking about the increasing number of farmers going bankrupt and another resentfully admitting they need billions in support. The only obvious thing is politics, and both populaces mostly being in opposing parties. These urbanites seem to forget their absolute reliance on each other. Farmers have not and can not!
I expect to seem the normal set of snarky responses to this comment from the same urbanites claiming/feigning their support for the poor farmers, big and small.
“Sammy, I’ve tried and failed to explain the thinking of and as a farmer.”
You did fail for a simple reason. Most farmers know how to think. You don’t. Babble on.
CoRev Agricultural economics is fraught with hazards. We all know that. What some of us dislike is this quaint idea that farmers are in love with free markets. They’re not. Farmers live and die by government largesse. The central problem today is that farmers overproduce and rely upon government programs to keep the party going. Markets have been telling us for years that dairy farmers are producing way too much milk and cheese. Same with corn. Same with soybeans. Same with wheat. Markets are telling us that we need fewer farmers. Cattle, hog and poultry farms generate a lot of negative externalities that the rest of us have to pay for. But farmers are over represented in state governments and in Congress, so the rest of us have to subsidize the lifestyles of rural farmers with ridiculous dairy subsidies, ethanol mandates, fructose subsidies, actuarially unsound insurance programs and unhelpful international frictions. Very few farmers actually make a living as full time farmers. Most are either hired by Big Ag companies that actually own the megafarms or they work outside jobs that allow them to take time off during planting and harvesting time. There are a lot of gentleman farmers who are more interested in the romance of rural living than the actual economics. Farming today is less about economics and more about some imagined lifestyle.
2slugs, you make my case. Your comments re: farm support are all true, and your implication is they are not necessary. That also is true UP UNTIL THAT DISASTROUS SEASON, when farm products are no longer readily available. China appears to be on the verge of another potential famine year. Thinking it could never happen here, and resenting the programs assuring it doesn’t is the amazement.
Wait – China farm production goes down and this someone hurts American farmers? In the absence of a Trump trade war – less Chinese production means Chinese consumers buy more US farm products.
Good God CoRev – please take a basic course in international economics.
CoRev Most corn goes into gas tanks and sugary drinks. The world won’t end if we produce less corn. If you’re worried about famines, then you really ought to be concerned about the consequences of overproduction of corn, soybeans, wheat, beef, pork, sheep, poultry and seafood.
PGL, please stop showing you ignorance over agriculture.
2slugs, another ignorant comment. Most corn is used for animal feed not sugary drinks. The 2nd highest US use is in ethanol production, a renewable source of energy demanded by liberals. https://www.iowacorn.org/corn-uses
Only thinking economically would anyone say: “If you’re worried about famines, then you really ought to be concerned about the consequences of overproduction of corn, soybeans, wheat, beef, pork, sheep, poultry and seafood.” These are annually produced products within a country. Didn’t we just have an article about trade deficits and even poor ignorant PGL understands the impact on our markets of food stuff shortages apparently imminent in China. Can you guess why that China food shortage is happening?
Farm supports are a form of socialism. It is a form of socialism that benefits farmers and those their farms feed. Too bad the ideological wastelands do not understand the painfully obvious truth. We live in a hybrid economy because pure free markets would destroy more then they would create. The result would be feudal land use and monopolistic behavior in other sectors. To the detriment of nearly all of the population. Pure socialism works equally poorly because it kills incentives and leads to corruption. And ultimately the same feudal and monopolistic place that pure capitalism and pure free markets end in.
Meaning that the right wing whinging about “socialism” means that the right is both ignorant and intellectually bankrupt.
Sammy, it is not “freedom” to receive free govt money. the farmers are the most govt subsides industries of the U.S. the farmers are nothing more than welfare queens.
they do like Trump because they are avowed racists like him.
Growers of certain crops (corn, wheat, sugar, rice, cotton) have been subsidized regardless of profits. Nor does a grower’s other income have any bearing on subsidies.received. A grower can have a six figure+ income (and benefits) and still receive subsidies and/or government paid crop insurance.
As I’ve noted before, my MC, Doug LaMalfa (CA 1), has no problem with receiving subsidies($$$millions so far) or government paid crop insurance. But as a self-styled “real deal conservative” he has plenty of problems with subsidizing those on low incomes who might purchase his rice.
Republicans (unlike Democrats, and I’m complementing Republicans here) have always understood the value of false terminology. That’s how we get all these PACS with patriotic sounding titles and “charity” groups with warm fuzzy names. And lawsuits that F— over the average Joe/Jane called “Citizens United”. Republicans “get it” that appearances matter while Democrats go on late night talk shows to slobber on their silk scarf while they show you their pretentious premium ice cream stash in the middle of a recession. But Republicans “get it”, and as a Democrat who has watched the DNC fumble the ball 10 times in the same conference championship game, I can respect that, I really can respect it.
So what do Republicans label their federal welfare program for mostly white male farmers?? They call “Market Facilitation Program”. Is that a beauty or what?? Mitch McConnell and Republican Chuck Grassley probably chuckle about that moniker very night before they go to sleep.
https://www.fsa.usda.gov/Assets/USDA-FSA-Public/usdafiles/FactSheets/2019/market_facilitation_program-fact_sheet-sept_2019.pdf
https://www.farmers.gov/manage/mfp
https://littlevillagemag.com/sen-grassley-applies-for-federal-farm-bailout-money-for-the-second-time-in-six-months/
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2019/05/24/chuck-grassley-seek-federal-farm-bailout-cash-offset-donald-trump-tariffs-china-trade-war/1209374001/
https://www.politico.com/blogs/on-congress/2009/12/anti-socialist-bachmann-got-250k-in-federal-farm-subsidies-023679
Chuck Grassley has been a millionaire for a long time now, so hopefully when sammy pays his federal tax bill he enjoys paying Chuck Grassley’s social welfare check. I’m not sure if sammy, Ed Hanson, CoRev, Bruce Hall, or our resident MAGA head cheerleader Rick Stryker consider that “income redistribution” or not when we pay for Chuck Grassley’s central planning social welfare for his soybeans, milk etc. Maybe Rick Stryker is like “Princeton”Kopits and he suddenly loses the use of his keyboard and vocal cords whenever that “income redistribution” goes from a poor person to millionaires like Republican Chuck Grassley?? “Strange” how that works……. Well, we still have the example of the righteous Mormon Mitt Romney to lead us to the heavenly gates:
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2012-jan-12-la-na-bain-subsidies-20120113-story.html
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-campaign-romney-bailout/special-report-romneys-steel-skeleton-in-the-bain-closet-idustre8050ll20120106
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-campaign-bain/workers-at-bain-owned-plant-appeal-to-romney-to-save-their-jobs-idUSBRE86G1BP20120717
Romney stole working men’s jobs, but he still shared his taxes and impeached the orange creature who spit in his face after Romney rimmed him to get the Secretary of State job:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JzvYUYfICM
Romney’s a hell of a guy, I don’t care what the “Elders” say.
Chuck Grassley has been a millionaire for a long time now
Exactly. Grassley is a total fake. An imposter. My wife’s late parents both grew up with Sen. Grassley in Butler County, Iowa. He’s been a pretend farmer ever since the late 1950s when he first entered politics. There’s a good story about Sen. Grassley’s fake image in Phishing for Phools: The Economics of Manipulation and Deception by George Akerlof and Robert Shiller. But his base likes to pretend that he’s the real deal just as they like to pretend that they’re rugged individualist farmers preserving the heartland of democracy.
@ Menzie
I’ve tried to be better on these Youtube links lately, not sure if I’ve succeeded but I’ve tried. This is one of my all time favorite videos on the internet (at least as it relates to Congress). I’m even betting if you haven’t seen this before Menzie, you’ll enjoy it. It’s worth all 84 seconds just so you can get Grassley’s punch line to the joke at the end. I’ve probably watched this 40+ times, and I still love it. NEVER gets tiresome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nJUIqNt5qQ
Keep in mind, Grassley is one of the folks who runs around telling us government run health care is a horrible and inefficient idea. But guess what?? Not too “inefficient” for Grassley and every Republican in the Congress.
Another of my all time favorites, about 90 seconds. I tried to chop off a mostly extraneous 30 seconds for you. Maybe you remember this guy??
https://youtu.be/h5kgnE1Xvec?t=34
We need a chart of milk prices. Not sure if this is the best one or not:
https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/milk
But this chart suggests milk prices are quite volatile. Hey – maybe Stephen Moore will included commodity milk prices in his revised gold bug monetary policy ideas.
“our resident MAGA head cheerleader Rick Stryker… ”
false. he is not a cheerleader. i have told you many times, he is a gay porn star. google it. get your facts straight.
Rick Stryker apparently was part of the cast of the 1990 movie Every Which Way:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0136821/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_1
Note the director – Jeff Stryker. Are the two related?
Moses, thanks for the kind words….
I accept your premise that farmers have been getting a substantial increase in government aid and a large part of that is not really needed for crop farmers who have planting choices. Dairy farmers have been on the dole forever. It’s certainly not the ideal situation (understatement).
Of course, you are fully aware that there are economic choices that the government administrations make and then there are strategic choices; the two may not perfectly align. We could get cheap oil from Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, and Russia. But for strategic reasons, not economic reasons, the choice was to re-develop U.S. energy capabilities to avoid reliance on less-than-reliable sources. Perhaps the strategic reasoning is faulty.
Now it is perfectly plausible that we can import a large portion of our foodstuffs and, indeed, we do. We could get corn from China, Brazil, Argentina, Ukraine, India, and even the European Union. The U.S. is the top corn producer, but those follow in order. More than enough corn to go around, so let’s let our corn production fall where it may on its own.
When it comes to wheat, we could import from China, India, and Russia which all produce more than the U.S. Those seem like reliable sources for the world’s needs as well as ours, so, like corn, let’s let the chaff fall where it may.
How about dairy products? That’s Menzie’s Wisconsin focus, for sure. Lots of small dairy farms and tons of subsidies. According to this article, the U.S. doesn’t even make the top ten in dairy production: https://www.trendrr.net/7832/top-10-best-dairy-providing-countries-in-the-world-highest-production/. Let’s just import what local farmers can’t produce profitably. Besides, adults shouldn’t be drinking milk or cream or eating dairy-based products; bad for the heart.
Soybeans? Well, Brazil can handle that. Besides, soy products can be harmful to males. https://www.cdc.gov/biomonitoring/Phytoestrogens_BiomonitoringSummary.html
It has to be a lot cheaper for the U.S. to import all of its agricultural and energy production than produce it with local subsidies. Also, metals and finished goods. And why not medical services; so much is being do online now, anyway.
So, Moses, I’m with you 100% on these subsidies. It has to stop. Taxpayers will save billions of dollars and be able to have a reliable, imported supply of everything they need at so much cheaper prices. In return, the U.S. will export, hmmm. Let me think about that for awhile. Got it, we have millions of acres of wood and billions of tons of coal we can export. And fresh water: https://www.usgs.gov/special-topic/water-science-school/science/where-earths-water?qt-science_center_objects=0#qt-science_center_objects. If we drain the Great Lakes (just the U.S. side, not Canada’s) we will have ready markets around the world where fresh water is so scarce.
So good chatting with you again.
Most people know how to source accurate detailed data on US food exports and US food imports but since you have to rely on Fox and Friends, try this handy source:
https://www.agfoundation.org/common-questions/view/does-the-united-states-import-more-agricultural-products-than-we-export#:~:text=Agriculture%20has%20a%20positive%20trade,and%20veggies%20topping%20the%20list.
Agriculture has a positive trade balance, which means we send out (export) more than we bring in (import). In 2019, the United States agriculture exports accounted for $135.54 billion with soybeans, beef, veal, pork, poultry and fresh and processed fruits and veggies topping the list … United States agriculture imports total $127.6 billion with coffee and cocoa, fresh and processed vegetables, and grains and feeds accounting for the majority.
It is also true that the US is not the only nation that subsidizes local food production. Something else you must have missed watching Fox and Friends.
Bruce Hall You might want to acquaint yourself with the concept of “comparative advantage.” And quit thinking like some old style Marxist. Goods are not the only thing traded between economies.
A couple of years ago (when this stupid trade war started) our host posted some usual information that showed production costs for soybeans in the US v. Brazil v. Argentina. It seems US farmers had a comparative advantage over the rest of the world.
But I guess that little fact went straight over Bruce Hall’s head. He would actually be having us rely on these kind of farm products produced in nations where production costs were higher than ours.
Even Sammy and CoRev are not THAT dumb!
pgl The US probably has both an absolute advantage and a comparative advantage in soybean production, but my reference to comparative advantage was in response to what Bruce said here:
In return, the U.S. will export, hmmm. Let me think about that for awhile.
What Bruce (and CoRev) don’t understand is that a country will always have a comparative advantage in something even if it’s at an absolute disadvantage in everything. The concept of absolute advantage is easy enough to understand, but there’s nothing intuitive about comparative advantage. Neither Bruce nor CoRev have any formal training in economics, so that’s why I suggested that he acquaint himself with the concept of comparative advantage.
A nice discussion of a concept that dates back to David Ricardo:
https://www.econlib.org/library/Topics/Details/comparativeadvantage.html
Ricardo’s trade model is about as basic as it gets but yea our Usual Suspects will never grasp it.
Too wheat exporters by nation in 2019
http://www.worldstopexports.com/wheat-exports-country/
1. Russia: US$6.4 billion (16.7% of total wheat exports)
2. United States: $6.3 billion (16.4%)
3. Canada: $5.4 billion (14.1%)
4. France: $4.4 billion (11.4%)
5. Australia: $2.51 billion (6.6%)
6. Argentina: $2.45 billion (6.4%)
7. Ukraine: $1.6 billion (4.3%)
8. Romania: $1.29 billion (3.4%)
9. Germany: $1.25 billion (3.3%)
10. Kazakhstan: $1 billion (2.6%)
11. Bulgaria: $967.1 million (2.5%)
12. Lithuania: $683.5 million (1.8%)
13. Hungary: $530.8 million (1.4%)
14. Latvia: $473.2 million (1.2%)
15. Poland: $431.5 million (1.1%)
China does not make the list? They certainly produce a lot of wheat. Oh wait – they consume a lot of wheat too. India is the 2nd highest on the list for wheat production but funny thing – they consume more wheat than any other nation besides China.
More basic facts that escape Bruce no relationship to Robert Hall!
Bruce, i get from your sarcasm that you are less a fan of free market capitalism, and more a fan of socialism and government directed industries. Fascinating. Are you aware of your socialist tendencies?
Before Brucie answers this, we need to teach the little boy what terms like “free market capitalism” and “free market capitalism” even mean. I seriously doubt he has any clue.
“When it comes to wheat, we could import from China, India, and Russia which all produce more than the U.S. Those seem like reliable sources for the world’s needs as well as ours, so, like corn, let’s let the chaff fall where it may.”
This is why we call you Bruce no relationship to Robert Hall. We export wheat because we have a competitive advantage in this product. Yes other nations produce wheat but then other nations consume wheat. Something tells me that you do not even know how to spell International Trade. You certainly have no clue with respect to the basics.
Farmers are the big welfare queens of the US, so they lick the hand that feeds them.
But what choice do we have? They produce essentials like ethanol and high-fructose syrup and warehouses full of cheese.
I thnk so far only pgl has directly addressed the issue raised by Menzie about Cris Peterson’s claims about the Wisconsin dairy industry gaining from Trump’s trade policies. He accurately noted that dairy prices have been highly volatile, although there was a period last year when they were up quite a bit. But they are back down again now.
Ms. Peterson is probably focusing on the USMCA of Trump, one of whose differences with the previous NAFTA was that it based Canada into lowering dairy import restrictions, with Wisconsin clearly on Trump’s mind about this. I am sure this is what motivated the remarks, and some months ago dairy prices were up. USMCA came in on July 1.
However, a June 17 blog post by the US Dairy Export Council claims that the Canadians are putting in place some sort of other tariffs on US dairy imports, so not much will happen. It may be that this is why dairy prices have more recently fallen. It would appear that Ms. Peterson is not too well informed.
Canada has a whole set of non-tariff barriers to trade. People like Trump and Kudlow haven’t a clue.
Moses HerzogSeptember 5, 2020 at 4:28 pm
I just wanna know where my Washington cherries went at the grocery store. They were there 6 weeks ago, er something.
A story from May 25:
https://wtop.com/asia/2020/05/northwest-cherry-crops-facing-disease-and-decreased-harvest/
PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — Cherry industry officials in Oregon and Washington state estimate a tree infection has substantially depleted the fruit for this year’s harvest. The infection known as little cherry disease has chopped an estimated 40 million pounds (18 million kilograms) of cherries from the forthcoming harvest, Oregon Public Broadcasting reported Sunday. The Northwest harvest begins around the end of May every year. Nearly 21 million boxes of cherries weighing 20 pounds (9 kilograms) each are expected to be picked in Oregon and Washington, down about 20% from a record-setting 2017 crop.