How Do You Know Where You’re Going If You Don’t Know Where You Are? (China Statistics Edition)

A question becoming increasingly relevant as China cuts back on statistical releases. From Burn-Murdoch at FT:

In this context, one can view the recent delay of Q3 GDP release as emblematic of a continuous process of dismantling the technocratic elements of economic management in China. We will probably have to rely more and more on alternative means of estimating Chinese economic activity, as in satellite imagery of nighttime lighting, or alternative composites of reported economic indicators (Li Keqiang index).

For a recap, here are the nowcasts and forecasts of reported GDP (that is, trying to forecast what official GDP will be reported as, not what actual activity might be), from this post.

Figure 1: China GDP (black), Bloomberg consensus as of 10/17 (sky blue square), Goldman Sachs as of 10/11 (brown triangle), and IMF World Economic Outlook October 2022 forecasts (red square), mn 2020CNY, quarterly rates. ECRI peak-to-trough recession dates shaded gray. Source: IMF, International Financial Statistics, Bloomberg (October 17, 2022), Goldman Sachs “Top of Mind” (10/11) and IMF World Economic Outlook, October 2022, ECRI, and author’s calculations.

While several observers have noted that in recent years, Chinese GDP movements at business cycle frequencies have matched what other indicators are suggesting, in the most recent quarters, there has been some skepticism evidenced (see this post).

In some ways, the problem posed by reduced reporting of low frequency indicators will make it harder to evaluate trend growth in output. Here, see Martinez’s (2022) Figure 6, which shows that over the 1992-2012 period, China’s official growth was nearly 200%, while estimated from satellite data, was 120% (second bar from the left in panel (a), third bar from the left in panel (b)).

Source: Martinez (2022), ungated Working Paper version.



69 thoughts on “How Do You Know Where You’re Going If You Don’t Know Where You Are? (China Statistics Edition)

  1. Ivan

    Hiding data is about the most counterproductive thing you can do. Peoples imagination can almost always make things up that are much worse than reality. When you hide data people start guessing (making up) the missing information – and act accordingly.

    1. pgl

      Something you wrote in April 2018? OK I did read the first sentence which told the reader you are still pushing a really stupid thesis. Thanks for letting me know that reading the rest of that rant would be a total waste of my time.

    2. JohnH

      China withdrawing from the world? Dream on! One small example, Panama, where the US recently owned the canal recently switched its diplomatic recognition from Taipei to Beijing.

      “ On the Pacific side of the Panama Canal, a massive gray convention center built largely by Chinese contractors gleams in the sun, eagerly hosting visitors from a world emerging from the Covid-19 pandemic. A few miles north, colorful shipping containers lay stacked under the stern gaze of quay cranes at the Port of Balboa, a facility run by a Chinese-linked firm…

      Such scenes have been playing out from Kenya to the Solomon Islands as the United States and China engage in a growing contest for international influence that could heavily shape geopolitics in the decades ahead. Beijing’s success in bolstering its presence in the Americas attests to the scope of its ambitions and the extent of the United States’ challenge in answering them.”

      Also, “ China-Led SCO Bloc Agrees to Expand Trade in National Currencies.”

      Even Saudi Arabia, the US’ longtime ally, refused to maintain oil production, when Biden snapped has finger!

      It’s tough staying king of the mountain when erstwhile allies are gaining strength and increasing feel free to exercise their sovereignty and pursue their national interests when it conflicts with Uncle Sam’s.

      That’s the reality. But I expect recognition of reality on this blog will be derided as being Xi’s poodle or some other inanity.

      1. pgl

        You finally had a sane post but then you wrote this garbage?

        ‘But I expect recognition of reality on this blog will be derided as being Xi’s poodle or some other inanity.’

        Now taking down the stupidity from your fellow troll is easy but you then you go back to your usual pointless nonsense. Pathetic.

      1. AndrewG

        Even fake data can’t discredit fast (albeit still incomplete) convergence to rich-country development levels, ltr. That’s why comparisons with long-rich countries aren’t very helpful.

        Of course, South Korea and Taiwan had China beat by decades. They’re both richer than the UK and Japan on a per capita basis. And their data is real. China? Not so much.

    1. Macroduck

      Funny! The issue at hand is the reliability of official Chinese economic data. What does our little lap-dog do? Link to official Chinese economic data without comment. Hilarious!

  2. Steven Kopits

    Apprehensions shatter fiscal year record

    As expected, for the fiscal year ending September 30th, the Biden administration has set a new record for apprehensions at 2,206,436. This shatters the prior record of 1,658,206 set by the Biden administration last year. Indeed, fiscal year 2022 apprehensions ran at five times the pace of the Obama administration and four times that of the Trump administration. Apprehensions under the Biden administration are not merely worse than under his predecessors, they are in an entirely different class. Nevertheless, apprehensions for the fiscal year came in just above our forecast of this past January. We anticipated 2.1 million apprehensions, thereby undershooting the actual number by 0.1 million. The difference is due principally to the super surge of the last three months.


    One struggles to comprehend what the Biden administration is thinking. Many months ago, I wrote that the Biden administration was likely to set an all-time record for border apprehensions, and that the fiscal year numbers would be published within three weeks of the election, thereby ensuring that the Democrats would take a hit in the midterms. And so it has proved. By rights, the administration should have substantially tightened border control for the last two months to depress the apprehension numbers heading into November. Just the opposite has happened. The data show deteriorating conditions, even compared to the lofty standard the administration has set. Why? It speaks not only to an indifference towards public sentiment, but to visible incompetence in the administration. September’s numbers were not only bad policy, they are bad politics.

    Finally, I wrote more than a year ago that open borders would torpedo the prospects for both DACA and Dreamers-related legislation. And so it has proved. With a majority in both houses and many Republicans sympathetic to the plight of DACA participants, the Biden administration had an opportunity to pass legislation normalizing the status of at least those in the DACA program, and perhaps as many as two million undocumented immigrants in total. Given the choice, however, the administration chose to keep the border open and thereby make the topic of status normalization radioactive. Republicans will likely take the House and possibly the Senate in the midterms. As a result, the window for normalization is likely to remain shut, possibly to 2030 or beyond, as I wrote well over a year ago. Here, too, open borders proved both bad policy and bad politics.

    1. pgl

      Oh gee – you are pushing your worthless blog posts hard. Sorry dude – but I do not read the rantings of an anti-immigrant racist. But good luck getting on Fox and Friends so you can push this garbage to those who appreciate it.

        1. pgl

          I see – you want to out me. Look troll – you need to grow up before you get to demand such a thing. Yea we get you have no life or credibility to trash before what you have done already but some of us are still respected in corporate America.

    2. Ivan

      So Biden is much better than the Orange disaster at catching those crossing the border. What is the whining about?

      1. Steven Kopits

        Generally, Ivan, apprehensions are thought to constitute some share of attempted crossings. And this makes sense. If migrants were unable to enter the country, the rate of attempted crossings would be pretty low. It would be a pointless exercise. On the other hand, if migrants thought that they would be awarded temporary legal status based on an asylum request, then they would go right up to the border, allow themselves to be arrested, and know that they will be released into the interior. That is what is happening.

        So the answer to your question is that the rate of illegal immigration is running five times the rate of that under the Obama administration and four times the rate under Trump.

        1. Ivan

          If apprehensions were a constant share of attempted crossings then there would be no reason to increase enforcement. But thank God we are getting a lot of crossings – otherwise our population growth would be negative – and the economy start crumbling. We need more young hardworking people in this country if we want manufacturing to come back.

    3. Macroduck

      Stevie, Stevie, Stevie,

      So what? Your views are – what’s that fancy word economists like? – orthogonal to anything that actually matters. You are just another guy on a barstool, but with a habit of self-promotion. This is NOT ad space for your little consulting business.

      1. pgl

        If there is anyone who cares about Stevie’s failing consulting business (I certainly do not) should tell this clown his blog posts are driving away potential clients. Not that every consultant is brilliant but damn Stevie is appealing to the dumbest people on the planet.

    4. Barkley Rosser


      So, if they are apprehending lots of people, it looks like they are keeping them from coming in, right? What is the problem here?

    1. Andrew Garib

      What are you talking about? Everything’s fine.

      Chinese ex-President Hu Jintao forcefully removed from party congress
      By Roman Meitav – 13h ago

      Chinese former President Hu Jintao was unexpectedly escorted out of the Great Hall of the People in Beijing during the closing ceremony of a congress of the ruling Communist Party on Saturday.

      Hu, 79, Xi Jinping’s immediate predecessor, was seated to the left of Xi. He was led off the stage of the main auditorium of the Great Hall of the People in Beijing by two stewards.

      Video footage widely circulated online showed a steward repeatedly trying to lift Hu from his seat, drawing concerned looks from officials seated nearby. Hu then put his hand on a sheet of paper placed on Xi’s folder but Xi quickly put his hand on the sheet.

      China’s top legislator Li Zhanshu, seated to Hu’s right, gave the former president’s folder to a steward, wiping his own head with a cloth after Hu finally stood up. Throughout the process, most of the other delegates, some considered to be among the most powerful in China, stared silently ahead.

      Hu, who has reportedly been in poor health, appeared confused during the incident, although not in obvious distress. He appeared to resist leaving as the stewards escorted him out, turning back to his seat at one point. On his way out, he spoke briefly with Xi and patted Premier Li Keqiang on the shoulder, seated to the right of Xi.

  3. ltr

    October 20, 2022

    CNOOC discovers large deep-water gas field, containing 50 billion cubic meters of fuel

    China discovered its first large deep-water deep-stratum gas field with proven reserves exceeding 50 billion cubic meters (bcm) in the sea southeast of Hainan Province, marking strong progress for the country in accelerating deep-sea exploration which will further ensure national energy security.

    According to the China National Offshore Oil Corp (CNOOC), the gas field called “Baodao 21-1” achieved the biggest drilling breakthrough in the Songnan-Baodao area in more than 50 years.

    In the fields that are the targets of offshore oil and gas exploration, waters with a depth of more than 300 meters are generally referred to as deep-water, and wells with a depth of more than 3,000 meters are defined as deep wells.

    Experts noted that the “Baodao 21-1” gas field is located in the deep-water area southeast of Hainan Island, with a maximum operating depth of more than 1,500 meters and a completed well depth of more than 5,000 meters, which is also subject to extremely complex marine geological conditions.

    Wu Keqiang, chief geologist of CNOOC Hainan, said that the successful discovery of “Baodao 21-1” not only confirmed the exploration potential of the Baodao Sag, but also indicated that China has made an important breakthrough in deep-water drilling technology, which has vital significance for the exploration of similar formations.

    “China’s deep-sea and deep-earth exploration technology is world-class, and the discovery will not only further advance the development of related exploration technology, but also serve as a way for the country to showcase its advanced technology to the world,” Lin Boqiang, director of the Center for Energy Economics Research at Xiamen University, told the Global Times on Thursday.

    Lin added that the newly found gas field is expected to further ensure China’s energy security and meet the rising energy needs of its people in the context of rising global natural gas prices….

    1. ltr

      October 16, 2022

      Orders for LNG ships surge as demand rise from energy-starved Europe
      By Yin Yeping

      China’s shipbuilders, accounting for about a 50 percent global market share, are working around the clock to provide much-needed liquefied natural gas (LNG) carriers, driven by booming demand from Europe as it scrambles to increase natural gas storage.

      Because of the damaged Nord Stream pipeline and the ongoing Russia-Ukraine conflict, gas supplies in Europe are tight. In response, orders for LNG vessels saw double-digit growth lately, with some major Chinese shipbuilders reporting order backlogs that stretch through 2026, the Global Times learned.

      A Shanghai-located shipyard is using 100 percent of its dock capacity and has orders on hand until 2026, even though it’s working on 18 large ships around the clock now, according to media reports.

      LNG ships have high requirements for the standard of craftsmanship, advanced production line and complete and stable supply chains, experts said. China, as the world’s manufacturing hub, owns many self-developed shipbuilding technologies….

    2. Macroduck

      Hang on…what happened to all of your “China is a leader in tackling greenhouse gasses” nonsense? Of course, China is the greatest producer of greenhouse gasses of any country in the world, and exploiting undersea gas deposits will just make China’s greenhouse gas production worse. But propagandists must spout propaganda, right?

  4. Moses Herzog

    Most of China’s numbers are a joke. Have they gotten better in recent years?? Yes, but still a continual joke, as verified by their Covid numbers, both a lie in absolute number terms and a lie by qualitative terms in that every locally caused Covid is “asymptomatic” and every medically blatant form of Covid is “foreign sourced”. And they make the numbers so astoundingly wrong, they are obvious lies. Beijing’s insult to their own populace~~they think mainland Chinese will believe the lies of a 5 year old.

    So we’ve gone from stats quoted that no one believes to stats just not quoted~~that’s a “change”?? I could argue it’s an improvement, because the complete farce has ended and Beijing leaders have FINALLY discovered a lie even they don’t think will pass mainland Chinese’ sniff test.

    1. Moses Herzog

      Chinese National Bureau of Statistics = ??

      Watch the comedy video shorts on TV. 4 year old girl looking into a video camera held by her mother. The girl’s entire chin and part of her shirt covered in melted cheese.

      Mom, (with handheld videocam) : Did you eat some cheese here in the kitchen??

      Little Girl (chin covered in cheese): NO

      Mom: Are you sure you didn’t have any cheese??

      Little girl (chin and shirt covered in melted cheese: “No!!! I didn’t have any cheese!!!!”

    2. Ivan

      Don’t forget that since May 27’th not a single person has died in China from Covid even though over 33,000 have been diagnosed with the disease.

    3. Barkley Rosser

      Moses and all,

      Something that the media has been letting Xi Jinping and his PR gang get away with is the claim that he has battled corruption and inequality since the end of the Hu Jintao regime. They do not provide any stats on either of these claims, although it is true that they have eliminated deep poverty since Xi came to power. Of course it is obvious that those most likely to be targeted in anti-corruption probes are viewed as critics of Xi. However, there may have been some slight improvement on this matter, with Transparency International moving China slightly up its “least corrupt” rankngs from 80th to 66th.

      But the story on income inequality is murkier. Income inequality in China was rising when Hu took power, who was committed to redistributing income to the poorer interior. Gini coefficient peaked in the middle of his presidency in 2008 at 49.1. But then Hu turned that around and it had fallen to 47.3 by 2012 2hen he left offive. It continued to decline somewhat more to a low of 43.9. But since then it has been rising under Xi’s rule. As of 2021 it had reached 46.8, still lower than when he took office a bit, but up noticeably since its low point in 2-15. Trend on that one is up, so not so good.

  5. ltr

    From April 2011, * when the United States stopped China from participating in space exploration programs as part of the International Space Station, to the trade war against China waged by the Trump administration, to the repeated and growing list of economic sanctions against China set by the Biden administration, the United States has made clear the intent to undermine Chinese economic development. The Conservative led British have joined the United States effort against China.

    That China has been and is protecting itself should have been expected. In a matter of days, the Chinese-International Space Station will be fully constructed and ready for teams of 6 international astronauts. United States and British astronauts could well be part of the Chinese space exploration program, but be sure the Chinese program will continue to progress.

    The calculated hostility of writers in the Financial Times or the Economist will make no difference to Chinese policy makers, nor difference to Chinese development progress.


      1. Menzie Chinn Post author

        ltr: What prejudice? We know that for some time, Chinese economic statistics were of dubious (otherwise, why did we have the Li Keqiang index?). albeit improving quality. The question is whether those statistics are now increasing in reliability under the Xi regime.

        1. Moses Herzog

          Similar to the proverbial stories of prior American generations walking uphill 15 miles in the snow to get to elementary school, ltr grew up sitting in the dark informationally, and damn it, just like Grampa Simpson, ltr likes it that way.

    1. Menzie Chinn Post author

      ltr: In order to further your arguments, I think it would be more useful for you to explain why (1) the decision to delay the Q3 GDP release is innocuous, or (2) the decision to reduce the number of economic releases under the Xi administrations is a *good* thing.

    2. Macroduck

      You mean the objectivity of FT and Economist journalists won’t matter to China’s progress? What a silly thing to say, whichever way you say it. The point of objective journalism is not to foster development, though it certainly couldn’t hurt. The point is to foster truth, to inform the public. What you oppose is an informed public.

      ltr, high dungeon in denouncing truth is just so CUTE when the issue at hand is China’s dishonesty. Who writes your material?

  6. Fazal Majid

    It’s my understanding hedge funds have been sourcing unofficial growth statistics like train shipment volumes for a long time, as official statistics are highly dubious. It’s not even always the doing of the central government, but since regional Party officials’ career advancement depends mostly on their charge’s GDP growth (and more recently a combination of GDP and environmental indicators), there is a tremendous incentive for local officials to fudge the numbers and hide pollution or disasters.

    1. Ivan

      Exactly. Hitting the numbers prescribed by the central planners is strongly incentivized. So the local/regional officials will not always pass on true numbers if those are bad news. The insane lack of anybody dying from the last 33,000 Covid cases is a great example of this. We know there has been Covid deaths but they have stopped reporting them.

  7. pgl

    This is a sad event for the City of Angels:

    An anti-Semitic group rallied support for Kanye “Ye” West with a message displayed on the Los Angeles 405 freeway Saturday: “Kanye is right about the Jews.” The banner hung alongside others that read, “Honk If You Know,” with another presenting bible verses, as several people displaying the banners raised their arms in a Nazi salute. The nonpartisan organization Stop Antisemitism identified the exhibition as the work of the white supremacist group Goyim Defense League, which the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) classifies as a “loose network of individuals connected by their virulent antisemitism.”

    Los Angeles should ban Kayne West from its city. The Goyim Defense League should be banned from the US.

    1. Moses Herzog

      This stuff always kind of kills me, because it’s very difficult to find any major personage in the Bible, including Jesus, who wasn’t Jewish, but KKK and other southern illiterates will quote Bible verses as they simultaneously insult Jews in blanket fashion. Just what do they think the foundation of Christianity is?? What is the underlying ethnic root they think Christianity was born out of?!?!?!?!?! Italian?? Egyptian??

      I’m trying to think of a better analogy (please anyone chime in and save me) but it would be like if someone idolized Confucius and ran around making derogatory comments on Chinese. Or a strict practicing Muslim saying “Arabs are all buhduhbuhduhbuhduh”. It’s completely nonsensical, contradictory, along with proving whoever stated it is functionally illiterate.

      1. Moses Herzog

        And just for the record, I am not going to sit here and tell blog readers “Race X is more intelligent than race Y” and “Race Q is more intelligent than Race E”. For one thing, Professor Chinn wouldn’t allow me to. But here’a a little experiment I invite you all to do (I am 100% Goyim for the record, and pretty much act like a Goyim when I try to do math regressions of differential equations, I am very sad to say).

        But look up the percentage of Jews as a part of the world population. I am too lazy to look it up right now, but I’m pretty certain it’s under 2%. Now check the percentage of Jews that won a Nobel. I think you will find it’s a “slightly” higher number. Now…….. If you don’t think that’s a slam dunk in the intelligence dept, please do me a huge favor and never engage me in debate, because if that doesn’t spell out I-N-T-E-L-L-I-G-E-N-C-E for you, then you’re a lost cause in my ledger book.

          1. Barkley Rosser


            I am sort of not all that keen on your pushing this here, but I have told this joke before here and will repeat it.

            So, Moses said it was the brain, Jesus said it was the heart, Marx said it was the stomach, Freud said it was the loins, and Einstein said it is all relative.

  8. Macroduck

    The context for China’s choice to hide and falsify economic data is important. It may simply be a refusal of an autocratic government to allow any bad news. Look at ltr’s behavior for a view in miniature of the unseemly self-congratulation common in this regime.

    There may, on the other hand, be a more paranoid cause for this behavior. Economic performance is a state secret because everybody is out to get us. The Soviet Union took this view, and our local Putin poodles, in their economic slobberings, suggest nothing has changed. China, ever eager to demonstrate it feelings of inferiority, mimics Russia because Russia is soooo smart.

    Or, and these aren’t mutually exclusive explanations, China’s leaders may be so accustomed to lying and deceit that lies and deceit have risen to the top of their hierarchy of responses. Lied to join the WTO. Lied about Hong Kong governance. Lie about practicing slavery. Lie about Covid. Lie about Covid vaccines.

    Heck, one of the 6 Xi puppets who trailed around behind Xi this past week was Huang Kunming, the Minister of Propaganda! What else do we need to know?

    1. Moses Herzog

      I’m so glad you said it and not me. And on top of relieving me of the burden, you worded it and communicated it better than I would have. Darn you Sir, darn you anyway.

  9. ltr

    What does our little lap-dog do?
    What does our little lap-dog do?
    What does our little lap-dog do?

    [ Such is racism, precisely the way in which European Jews were historically attacked. ]

    1. Macroduck

      You lying oittle lap dog. European Jews were ever the minority. They were ghettoized, reventd from owing property, barred from some professions. China is a country dominated by Han Chinese. Han Chinese are the racists in China. Comparing your lad-dog self to European Jews is vile. You represent a racist regime. You don’t get to hide behind charges of racism.

  10. ltr

    October 21, 2022

    China’s GDP blackout isn’t fooling anyone
    There is diminishing faith in the few economic indicators that, after years of obfuscation, still see the light of day
    By JOHN BURN-MURDOCH – Financial Times

    [ Simply notice the carefully calculated prejudice. This is definitive prejudice, absolutely typical of the Financial Times and the Economist. ]

  11. ltr

    — grew up sitting in the dark informationally, and damn it, just like Grampa Simpson, — likes it that way.

    [ Precisely the way in which the Jews of Europe were savaged. The way in which devouring prejudice is practiced. ]

    1. Macroduck

      European Jews were put in camps by ye Nazis. Uyghurs are put in camps by the Chinese. European Jews were enslaved by Nazis. China enslaves Uyghurs. European Jews were slaughtered by Nazis. China slaughters Uyghurs.

      Go on, tell us about how the Chinese are just like European Jews.

  12. ltr

    October 23, 2022

    Chinese mainland records 207 new confirmed COVID-19 cases

    The Chinese mainland recorded 207 confirmed COVID-19 cases on Saturday, with 155 attributed to local transmissions and 52 from overseas, data from the National Health Commission showed on Sunday.

    A total of 791 asymptomatic cases were also recorded on Saturday, and 15,229 asymptomatic patients remain under medical observation.

    The cumulative number of confirmed cases on the Chinese mainland is 257,362, with the death toll from COVID-19 standing at 5,226.

    Chinese mainland new locally transmitted cases

    Chinese mainland new imported cases

    Chinese mainland new asymptomatic cases

  13. ltr

    What does our little lap-dog do?
    What does our little lap-dog do?
    What does our little lap-dog do?

    [ So the Jews of Europe were savaged, so the very person-hood of European Jews was denied. ]

    1. Barkley Rosser

      Sorry, ltr, please do not EVER repeat this worthless lying piece of garbage that somehow the Jews of Europe and the Chinese are somehow connected historically, politically, or whatever. As a minority in many nations Chinese have been discriminated against like the Jews in Europe and elsewhere. But in China itself, as has been repeatedly noted by many here, the Chinese have been behaving towards various minority groups as the Germans did to the Jews,

      Sorry, ltr, but no amount of denying by you is going to make those camps in Xinjiang somehow come to have never existed. They were the equivalent of the German concentration camps for Jews. PERIOD.

  14. Bruce Hall

    There is something going on in China besides the obfuscation of data. President Xi is remaking the leadership forcefully as exhibited by his removal of his predecessor, Hu Jintao from the CCP Congress.

    This certainly seems to be the “Putinizing” of the CCP and might we reasonably expect the same sort of foreign adventurism to consolidate Xi’s “legacy” just as Ukraine was supposed to do for Putin?

    The world is potentially facing a totalitarian, fascist regime in China that has a leader with an unrelenting vision: domination. That means that the rational, economic constraints of a trade-seeking nation may be sacrificed to ensure iron-fisted control by Xi. Remember, over a million Chinese were arrested as “criminal suspects” before this CCP Congress began.

    Totalitarian fascist leaders brook no opposition. Xi poses as a calm, smiling “president”, but his actions paint another picture. So, no reliable economic data coming out of China? That’s the least of the problems.

    1. pgl

      OK Xi is an awful leader. But what he has done to China is precisely what Trump wants to do to America. And you worship Trump. So Brucie – why do you so hate democracy?

  15. ltr

    Look at —– behavior for a view in miniature of the unseemly self-congratulation common in this regime….

    ——- leaders may be so accustomed to lying and deceit that lies and deceit have risen to the top of their hierarchy of responses. Lied to join the WTO. Lied about —- —- governance. Lie about practicing slavery. Lie about Covid. Lie about Covid vaccines.

    [ Completely false; how distressing such savage falseness. Such is the evident need to savage an entire people. ]

    1. Macroduck

      You mean the way China has savaged Uyghurs and Tibetans? Wait, that can’t be right. China has actually killed and enslaved hundreds of thousands of minorities, and starved 60 million of its own citizens back in Mao’s day. You think little old me is “savaging” the whole Chinese popularion? You have an odd sense of proportion.

    1. pgl

      The details in that account were very informative. Yes our host has put up the headline numbers but the details noted here are important.

  16. Anonymous

    the 50 migrants tossed off martha vineyard are hold up in a days inn in methuen , ma

    as if there are not 50 rooms off season on Martha’s

    are they in the apprehension count once or twice?

    1. Barkley Rosser


      Is this piece of utterly irrelevant nothingness something somebody on Fox News like Carlson is babbling about makes you think this is important enough to post here? Gag, you are completely losing what is left of your mind.

      This was a pathetic and hypocritical and actually illegal stunt by DeSantis that proved nothing at all. So what on earth is the significance of that these people are now staying in a Days Inn in Methuen rather than Martha’s Vineyard? I bet the former is less expensive.

      As it is, it looks that you are unaware that a bunch of those people are suing DeSantis for this shenanigan he pulled. His agent lied to them, and she at least will end up in serious legal trouble for this total bs/

      Why on earth did you bring this up here now? This is beneath idiotic, You are seriously competing with CoRev for stupidest commenter here. I mean this is up there with his ridiculous effort to say that despite there being a clear trend in the dats showing an upward trend in global average temperature, the fact that there has been no upward trend in the anomalies off that upward trend means that the upward trend itself is not an upward trend. Yes, A,, this stuff is that stupid. Gag.

Comments are closed.