37 Years Ago Today: “It’s because of you little motherf*****s that we’re out of work!”

On this day, in 1982,  at the height of the hysteria focused on competition from Japan, two unemployed auto workers chased down Vincent Chin — celebrating his bachelor’s party — and beat him senseless with a baseball bat (he subsequently died from his injuries). As we re-establish Camp Sill as an internment/detention/concentration camp (you pick the term), and the deportation campaign — real or imagined — is announced, it’s perhaps time to recall the warning signs:

In context:

“…Every time there is tension between any Asian country and America, Asian Americans face  problems, even if they’re not of that particular ethnicity.”

That’s law professor Frank Wu, as quoted in the Guardian. One might be tempted to say that American born Asians have nothing to fear (the purged scientist at NIH was an American citizen). In any case, during WWII, 2/3 of the interned were native born.

Even if the Trump administration does not impose official sanctions on Asian American citizens, I worry about the rhetoric (including trade war talk focused on Huawei — although strangely not ZTE) impelling individuals to take action on their own.

The entire story: On June 23, 1982, Vincent Chin (no relation) died from injuries suffered after he was beaten outside the bar where his bachelor party was taking place, in Highland Park, Michigan, by Chrysler plant superintendent Ronald Ebens, with the help of his stepson, Michael Nitz. Ebens’ quote: “It’s because of you little motherfuckers that we’re out of work!” referring to the impact of Japanese imports on Michigan employment (Chin was a U.S. citizen of Chinese extraction). After a plea bargain, neither served any jail time, and were given three years probation, fined $3,000 and ordered to pay $780 in court costs. The judge said, “These weren’t the kind of men you send to jail… You don’t make the punishment fit the crime; you make the punishment fit the criminal.”

I suspect today, in Trump’s America, these two gentlemen would get a warm welcome at a ceremony at the White House.

And on cue, what pops into my mailbox today…

‘Committee on the Present Danger: China’ Threat Briefing Focuses on China’s ‘Unrestricted Warfare’ on Manufacturing, the Need for Indo-American Solidarity

Newt Gingrich, Steve Bannon and Shalabh ‘Shalli’ Kumar Join Other Experts and Electronics Manufacturers to Address Communist China’s Take-Down of the U.S. Industrial Base and the Emerging U.S.-India Strategic Partnership


134 thoughts on “37 Years Ago Today: “It’s because of you little motherf*****s that we’re out of work!”

  1. Not Trampis

    I am left speechless that a person would say you do not make the punishment fit the crime.
    Of course you do.
    you kill a man and serve no gaol time.


    1. Moses Herzog

      Old-timey version of a TBTF banker. OK, maybe poor taste there—but I smidgeon of truth in there somewhere.

  2. pgl


    ””Where are you from?” the president asked, according to two officials with direct knowledge of the exchange. New York, she replied. Trump was unsatisfied and asked again, the officials said. Referring to the president’s hometown, she offered that she, too, was from Manhattan. But that’s not what the president was after. He wanted to know where “your people” are from, according to the officials, who spoke off the record due to the nature of the internal discussions. After the analyst revealed that her parents are Korean, Trump turned to an adviser in the room and seemed to suggest her ethnicity should determine her career path, asking why the “pretty Korean lady” isn’t negotiating with North Korea on his administration’s behalf, the officials said.’

    Hey Donald – next time you are in Manhattan – head down to 32nd Street between Avenue of the Americas and 5th Avenue. It’s called Korea Town. Some great food and if you are hot and horny for a “pretty Korean lady” there are lots of girls to choose from. Shhh – we will not tell your wife.

  3. pgl

    In case you do not recognize the name Shalabh ‘Shalli’ Kumar:


    Meet Shalabh ‘Shalli’ Kumar, the Indian-American, rather the Hindu-American industrialist who has emerged as one of Donald Trump’s biggest financial backers. The Chicago -based business tycoon is the founding chairman of the Republican Hindu Coalition and has donated 1.1 million dollars to the Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump’s election campaign.

    In November 2015, he established the ‘Republican Hindu Coalition’ that works for strengthening Indian-Americans as a powerful voting bloc in the upcoming US presidential elections and and as a non-profit entity. The official Facebook page of the Republican Hindu Coalition describes its mission as, ‘a single unified platform to build a strong, effective & respected Hindu-American voice in Washington and across the country. RHC shall become a unique bridge between the Hindu-American community and Republican and shall make the best and relentless efforts to make the 21st Century to be an Indo-American century through an exponential increase in bilateral trade between India and the US and a strategic alliance between the two countries at all levels.’

    1. dilbert dogbert

      Shalabh ‘Shalli’ Kumar: The enemy of my ememy is my friend.
      After mr. rump finishes with China, India will be next.

  4. pgl

    Trump backs down again:


    “President Donald Trump announced on Saturday that he would delay his order of mass deportations for two weeks. “At the request of Democrats, I have delayed the Illegal Immigration Removal Process (Deportation) for two weeks to see if the Democrats and Republicans can get together and work out a solution to the Asylum and Loophole problems at the Southern Border,” Trump tweeted. “If not, Deportations start!”

    Pelosi says the Democrats want to work out a comprehensive immigration reform. The only problem is that this does not fit in with Stephen Miller’s racist agenda.

  5. Richard A.

    Let’s not forget how the MSM throughout the 80s grossly exaggerated Japanese protectionism.

    1. pgl

      Excuse me? Could you point out a single press account here and educate us as to what it got wrong?

      1. Moses Herzog

        I think people who lived through that time (’80s–’90s decades) would tell you there were lots of loud complaints the Japanese government “refused” to import American cars. The truth of the matter is Japanese consumers didn’t want American cars. Yet there were many TV journalist accounts at the time that this was some kind of belligerent behavior by the Japanese government, when the simple explanation was nobody wants to buy a crappy car—which is all you could find American automobile manufacturers making at the time—was crappy cars. Lee Iacocca never had a shortage of offers to do TV interviews so he could complain the Japanese had the audacity to to make a superior product. That’s just on autos alone.

        There was also lots of whining about American electronics dying off. American media (especially television) wasn’t exactly giddy to tell American TV viewers that Sony, Toshiba, Mitsubishi, Casio ad infinitum Japanese names cared about making a QUALITY product while America was making shoddy TVs from Mexico that broke when you dared to look at it from the periphery of your eye. Zenith used to make great TVs, until they thought shipping jobs south of the border where the manufacturing processes and workmanship was piss poor was the way to go. America TV makers were not “driven out”. They were beat at making a great product.

        1. Moses Herzog

          BTW, if Professor Chinn personally desires to “chirp in” here, I’m happy to listen as to anywhere I’m wrong on the above.

          In fact, I even make the promise not to make a single chirp back to him, in this portion of the thread (on this topic) if he’d like to tell me where my memory is failing me here.

        2. pgl

          People are still claiming about Japanese protection. Take PeakTrader as a prime example. And your point about the Japanese not wanting overpriced and low quality cars made in the good old USA still rings home today.

          The global market is a competitive place and pretend capitalists like PeakTrader want to avoid real competition.

  6. Bruce Hall

    I find it reprehensible that Trump would even consider deporting the millions of people who have come to the U.S. legally. Each year, over a million people come to the U.S. legally through various channels. How could anyone want to shut down such perfectly acceptable processes?

    And to hold these people in concentration camps where they are stripped naked and then forced into hard labor until they starve and then are surreptitiously cremated in large gas ovens? Well, that’s beyond the pale. Why, our prisons would be a better alternative than those concentration camps. Better yet, why not some temporary holding centers, detention centers, if you will?

    Specific words have specific connotations. Not all synonyms are actually interchangeable for precise communication. Perhaps AOC and the ilk should be apprised of that.

    1. Menzie Chinn Post author

      Bruce Hall: A little etymology. The term “concentration camp” is a term first used in the context of the second Anglo-Boer war, and Kitchener’s campaign. Seems completely legit to use the term, to me.

      Who made *you* the arbiter of correct usage. Could’a called the Japanese internment camps “free housing cost camps” instead, I guess…

      By the way, it is *legal* to apply for asylum, according to our agreements to international treaties.

      1. Bruce Hall

        Menzie, ask 100 people… 1,000 people… if they understand the terms “concentration camp”, “prison”, and “detention center” to be virtually identical. Convention and context are important.

        Ask the same 1,000 people if they see the WWII Japanese internment camps and German “concentration camps” to be virtually identical. Conditions and context are important.

        I won’t argue that what happened to the Japanese who were living legally in the U.S. was right; there is no justification as we view history. Perhaps history will provide context for what is happening on our southern border providing either justification or condemnation or possibly a little of both on both sides. But there seems to be a solid argument that there is a difference between a internment center for people living legally in the U.S. versus a detention center for hundreds of thousands of people “migrating” (invading) into the U.S. illegally.

        People in the U.S. are not against immigration. They simply want orderly, well-managed immigration, not a stampede for the border.

        The blending of terms without context is propaganda. It is propaganda to assert that those who want such orderly, well-managed immigration are racists.
        “Canadians are broadly supportive of immigration,” Radchenko said. “But Canadians truly believe in order and well-managed immigration.”

        1. Menzie Chinn Post author

          Bruce Hall: Is there a right to sue for asylum, per our treaty obligations? If so, then at least some of those in “detention centers” are not breaking the law.

          The fact that you aver that maybe internment of US citizens of Japanese extraction during WWII is up for debate speaks volumes. That’s all I need to know.

          1. Bruce Hall

            Menzie aver? What I wrote: I won’t argue that what happened to the Japanese who were living legally in the U.S. was right; there is no justification as we view history. . I think that’s unequivocal.

            As for treaty obligations, those coming into the U.S. claiming asylum have obligations as well, perhaps the situation is more complicated than “Trump is denying asylum”: https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/07/05/fact-check-are-80-of-asylum-court-cases-not-approved/ . The U.S. has been quite lenient in granting asylum, but the seekers have some obligations too, and many simply ignore those obligations.

            Another issue is that many of the so-called asylum seekers do so after they have illegally entered the U.S. (defensive asylum). With our border management under extreme pressure, Trump is attempting to bring some order to the situation. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/18/opinion/mr-obamas-dubious-detention-centers.html . Oh, wait.

            I find that many who publicly proclaim their “open arms” principles for unmanaged migration have issues when it hits home. For example, the gay, Democratic Party mayor of Del Rio, Texas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhJ8h4aN1M4

          2. Menzie Chinn Post author

            Bruce Hall: What’s with the “as we view history” caveat, then? We all make decisions in the moment. We’re making that decision to deny soap and medicine to children sleeping on floors, today.

          3. Menzie Chinn Post author

            Bruce Hall: Do you think that’s a “gotcha” moment? If so, you are pathetically misguided. Denial of soap, forced sleeping endlessly on floors is wrong then, wrong now.

            Executive Order 9066, ordered under the FDR administration, was wrong then, wrong now. Period. Trail of tears and Jackson’s refusal to heed the Supreme Court’s decision wrong then, wrong now.

            Now, isn’t what we really need, in your view, to make the southern border an armed camp, with shoot to kill orders?

          4. Bruce Hall

            Menzie, Now, isn’t what we really need, in your view, to make the southern border an armed camp, with shoot to kill orders?

            No, what is really needed now is full cooperation from the Mexican government to control the situation. There is too much chaos and misrepresentation of what constitutes the need for “asylum”. The fact is that most of the people who are attempting to cross the southern border are not seeking asylum, but simply better economic opportunities. And that’s great, but so are the people who are going through the process legally.

            But I’m sincerely amazed that you are so willing to not only let young people attend your classes who were not accepted into UW, but also support their rights to food and dormitory accommodations through encouragement and deductions from your salary to pay for that. Oh, but that’s so much different from people who want the U.S. government to do that for people who want economic opportunity even if circumventing our laws. They have the right to demonstrate that they are being politically oppressed and endangered by their government, but that does not include claiming economic hardship as political oppression. If that were the case, then about 5 or 6 billion people would qualify for “asylum” in the U.S. Now that would be interesting.

            Feel-good economics above all else.

        2. pgl

          “People in the U.S. are not against immigration. They simply want orderly, well-managed immigration, not a stampede for the border.”

          Stampede? Hispanics are cattle now? To Stephen Miller “orderly, well-managed” means white immigrants. And I’m sure he thanks you for echoing his view point.

          1. Bruce Hall

            Menzie, You do know early Nazi concentration camps were not necessarily death camps, yes?

            By “death camps” you mean that no one died in those camps earlier? Or do you mean that if some Japanese died in U.S. camps, those were “death camps”. Really, you are playing word games and no one is fooled… or are you being an apologist for the Nazi party’s early concentration camps because they were “not necessarily death camps”?

            Did some people of the tens of thousands being detained at the U.S. southern border die? Well, then I guess Mexico must have had forced “death marches” through their country since some people died.

          2. Bruce Hall

            Menzie, Bruce Hall: Well, since 6 children have died in US custody, happy to label them “death camps” per your wish.

            Is that a response to: By “death camps” you mean that no one died in those camps earlier? Or do you mean that if some Japanese died in U.S. camps, those were “death camps”. Really, you are playing word games and no one is fooled… or are you being an apologist for the Nazi party’s early concentration camps because they were “not necessarily death camps”?

            It seems you want it both ways. If deaths occur, then they are death camps even when the intent is detention, but when the Nazis put Jews and Poles in concentration camps and didn’t start the killing immediately, those were not “death camps” even though the “final solution” was the intention. Do you really think anyone is fooled by that?

            Meanwhile, the Democrats are shooting themselves in the foot: https://www.facebook.com/realCandaceOwens/videos/2286231871627375/UzpfSTE2NjIxODkxMjk6MTAyMTczNjE4ODQyNzMzODg/
            Cudahy, Wisconsin.

          3. Menzie Chinn Post author

            Bruce Hall: I’d prefer to call them what they are – concentration camps; camps in which you amass or “concentrate” people you want held in place. I’d be happy to call the Japanese-*American* internment camps concentration camps as well. I’m happy with calling the Kitchener era camps concentration camps. At the moment, I think concentration camps is more apt than “death camps” because CBP is not aiming to kill, even if Trump wouldn’t mind some deaths. After all, as Mr. Trump has characterized them, they are “animals”.

        3. pgl

          Mike Pence dodges basic questions on this issue:


          “Vice President Mike Pence on Sunday skirted around CNN reporter Jake Tapper’s questions about the squalid conditions migrant child are living under at southern border detention facilities. Last week, a Justice Department lawyer argued that the U.S. government wasn’t required to give soap and toothbrushes to the kids at the detention centers. “This is the wealthiest nation in the world,” Tapper pointed out to Pence. “We have money to give toothpaste and soap and blankets to the kids in this facility in El Paso county, right now we do.” The vice president responded, “Of course we do.” “So why aren’t we?” Tapper asked.

          Pence dodged this as he decided to blame the Democrats – whatever! But the interview returned to this issue:

          Tapper read aloud a New Yorker article detailing a child detention center in Texas, where children were “filthy, sleeping on cold floors, and taking care of each other because of the lack of attention from guards.” “I know you. You’re a father, you’re a man of faith,” Tapper said to Pence after he was done reading. “You can’t approve of that.”“Well, no American, no American, should approve of this mass influx of people coming across our border,” Pence said. “It is overwhelming our system.”

          I guess the “overwhelming” comment is akin to Bruce Hall calling these migrants a “stampede”? Or is denying basic care Bruce Hall’s idea of “orderly, well-managed immigration”.

          1. Menzie Chinn Post author

            pgl: As I recall, it was to prevent infection by dirty untermensch. Perhaps this is all a very clever plan by the authorities to spur disease, and use that as a pretext for isolating these individuals, to prevent infection.

      2. Ann

        It is legal to apply for asylum

        It is a CRIME to sneak across the border no matter what you do once you cross – be it disappear or find a Border agent and apply for asylum

        The asylum app is legal — sneaking in rather than going to the border gates and getting permission to come in is NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        1. Menzie Chinn Post author

          Ann: If CBP closes entry to a trickle in order to prevent people from asking for asylum, isn’t that a violation of the treaty obligations?

      3. Moses Herzog

        @ Menzie
        Menzie my friend, I’m sincerely curious HOW Bruce Hall thinks the Germans/Hitler first sold/marketed concentration camps to the German masses?? Does Bruce Hall think German leaders straight out told what was actually happening??—or did Hitler and the Germans market/sell the concentration camps in a different fashion?? Hmmmmmm, I wonder……..

      4. Not Trampis

        even in Germany the term concentration camp was problematic between wars.
        It was used to house political prisoners in 1919, during hyperinflation and then when the Nazis came to power. Indeed they were so successful there was a recommendation that they all be closed in 1934.
        Robert Gellately in his book Backing Hitler had two chapters on concentration camps/ One on early camps and then another once the Nazis were on war like conditions and they were used as tools to kill Jews and others.

        In this I think Bruce is using concentration camps in the correct context

        1. Menzie Chinn Post author

          Not Trampis: Perhaps – but recall the earliest widespread usage of the term was during 2nd Boer War, in Kitchener’s pacification program, although the same term could be applied to US pacification campaigns against native American Indians. In the Boer War, my understanding was causing mass fatalities was not the objective. For the US case, not so sure.

    2. pgl

      Another one of your patented pieces of sarcasm designed to protect any legitimate criticism of Trump’s bad behavior we see. Bruce – try saying what you really mean? Come dude – you are reminding us of a poor man’s Sarah Huckabee Sanders.

    3. pgl

      Given Bruce Hall brought up AOC maybe he might check out how she responded to the pathetic Kevin McCarthy:

      ‘Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez hit back at House minority leader Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) on Friday after he demanded that she apologize for comparing migrant detention centers at the southern border to concentration camps. Ocasio-Cortez said McCarthy himself needs to apologize for his “deliberate conflation” of her words and his support of the overcrowded detention centers in the first place. “I think he should apologize for the conditions he’s supporting on the border. He should apologize to the children that have been separated from their parents,” Ocasio-Cortez told Intercept reporter Nicholas Ballasy. “He should apologize for his support for widespread human rights abuses. That’s what he should apologize for.” “And until he stops supporting the absolute dehumanizing conditions on our border, I will not apologize for holding him to account for it,” she added.’

      Bruce Hall like McCarthy is twisting what AOC said. I presume Bruce Hall is also not bothered by the inhumane treatment of migrants at our Southern border.

      1. Menzie Chinn Post author

        pgl: The message from Bruce Hall is that each person in the camp deserves the treatment they get, international treaties and morality be damned.

        1. pgl

          I’m sure they were some members of the Aryan “master” race that thought the Jews under Hitler’s custody deserved what they got too. Oh but wait – Bruce Hall thinks it is inappropriate to remind us of these episodes in history when talking about Trump’s America.

        2. Bruce Hall

          Menzie, I expected a little more than that comment from you. It’s not a matter of “deserving” (although there certainly is an element of fault on the part of those thumbing their noses at U.S. immigration laws and sovereignty). It’s a matter of the U.S. drawing the line and providing better accommodations than what I’ve witnessed in San Francisco.

          Your expectation is what? Open borders? Anarchy? Dissolution of process and recognition? How does the University of Wisconsin feel about young people who were not accepted through an admissions process attending classes without paying and making their own accommodations in the student dormitories?

          1. pgl

            You diatribes here are beneath contempt. An honest discussion of these issues is not what we expect from you in even our wildest dreams but these cheap shots strike me as something that even Stephen Miller would be wise enough to avoid.

          2. Bruce Hall

            pgl, I’m not writing diatribes; I’m writing replies to assertions that the U.S. has no right to control the influx of people claiming asylum. Are you suggesting that Canada or the EU or other members of the UN have no right to control mass movement of people into their countries? You might get strong disagreement. Economic privation is not political oppression.

            I perceive that you are the one writing diatribes such as I’m sure they were some members of the Aryan “master” race that thought the Jews under Hitler’s custody deserved what they got too. Oh but wait – Bruce Hall thinks it is inappropriate to remind us of these episodes in history when talking about Trump’s America. . You like to make up crap, don’t you?

    4. Ann

      No one who came LEGALLY is subject to the deportation. Anyone who (1) sneaked over the border without permission or (2) whose claim for asylum was denied and they were ordered to leave SHOULD BE DEPORTED!! The first committed the crime of unlawful entry by an alien and the second have been told to leave by a court!

      Btw way there ILLEGAL entrants and prospective asylum applicants are being held ARE just like a prison – guards, assigned quarters etc. And so they should be held until it is determined if or when they are to be deported

      What a completely fact load of bullhockey you are screeching

      1. soren

        Young children are being denied food, water, and medical care. Young children are sleeping on concrete floors in camps.

        Is this what you support, Ann?

      2. Barkley Rosser


        “screeching”? You are tho one capitalizing words and using lots of exclamation points (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

        Sorry, but you are the one who is screeching here, not Menzie. Do you screech like that in real life too???????????

        I bet you go to Trump rallies where they do a lot of screeching. You would be socially acceptable there. Not anywhere else though.

  7. Moses Herzog

    This is one of those time stretches (and I think stretches is the term to use here, NOT moments) in which America’s general populace should feel a great deal of shame. Shame to call themselves Americans. And yet somehow I doubt it’s registering with any more than a minute minute fraction.

    This is why it’s important for all Americans (and Jewish leaders such as Netanyahu, who thinks it’s cute to flirt and take the ballroom dance floor with donald trump) to speak out, and not be afraid to speak out in public forums. This is WHY such things as tenure were created at universities, so educators can speak the truth when that moment arrives. That moment HAS arrived.

    I am NOT letting donald trump off the hook on his racism, but I suspect the interaction with the Korean-American woman was more related to his weird form of sexism, the same type he exhibits in his fascination for Omarosa. I feel the same way about Omarosa as I did Sarah Palin circa 2008. She is a stunning woman physically, there’s no denying it, but it doesn’t mean she’s suitable for posts with high responsibility. I suspect (though I haven’t laid eyes on her yet) the Korean woman’s appearance was what caught trump’s fascination more than anything else. Which shows you which part of the male anatomy trump and John McCain made many of their decisions with.

    1. pgl

      There are Jewish people that are as disturbed by Trump’s racism as we are. I guess sycophants like Bruce Hall has no clue what these Jewish people believe. Of course how could he wearing that Make America White Again hat.

      1. Bruce Hall

        pgl, There are Jewish people that are as disturbed by Trump’s racism as we are. I guess sycophants like Bruce Hall has no clue what these Jewish people believe. Of course how could he wearing that Make America White Again hat.

        I think I can understand what the Jewish people believe since my mother’s parents fled Turkey when their Armenian families were being slaughtered. I differentiate between what happened to the six million Jews in Europe and the 1.5 million Armenians in Turkey from the “I’m gonna get the dollars I want and no one has the right to stop me” marchers coming through Mexico. There is asylum from tyranny and then there is skip-the-line economic opportunity seeking.

        Your agenda is less clear, but I think it can be summed up as “never Trump” regardless of what it is.

        1. 2slugbaits

          Bruce Hall There is asylum from tyranny and then there is skip-the-line economic opportunity seeking.

          (1) Regarding the Central Americans at the border, they are fleeing tyranny, violence and famine from consecutive years of drought. Those sound like humanitarian reasons for asylum to me. How about you?

          (2) There is no such thing as a “line” to skip. Potential immigrants don’t “wait their turn” to come here. This is just a myth and plays on some intuition we learned in kindergarten. That’s not how US immigration policy works.

          (3) If someone is seeking economic opportunity, then the marginal benefit of coming here exceeds the marginal cost of their being here. In other words, it also makes me economically better off as well.

  8. Moses Herzog

    Well, Jerome Powell got to play on the D.C. carousel since he’s a good little boy, and Daddy donald trump told little Janet Yellen to go play with the man circling the park in the tinted windows Ford Transit Van with the hoodie offering candy to the kids. When is Jerome going to be a good little boy and lower rates?? He’s not being a good little boy for Daddy donald and Daddy donald may have to send Jerome over to the weirdo ice cream man in the dark shades if this keeps up. No worries Jerome, you get that sherbet cone, Daddy donald will be back in 20 minutes after he gets some french fries at McDonalds for you Jerome—so think fast about that rates move. Daddy donald doesn’t want to tell all the anchors on FOX Business News to tell everyone what a bad boy you are Jerome, really. “But we’ll see…. ” We’ll see what happens Jerome….. We’ll see, Daddy donald “does not want to say yet”. “Go get the sherbet Jerome, Daddy donald thinks the ice cream man likes you…….”

  9. dilbert dogbert

    I remember a video of Auto workers trying to destroy a Japanese car by running the engine at top speed till it failed. HaHaHaHa! They got tired of waiting and had to drain the engine oil before it would fail. Draining the radiator would have done the trick also.
    Without the Japanese competition the big three would still be making 1970’s cars.

    1. Moses Herzog

      Dilbert Sir, you have hit the nail on the head. And God bless you for saying it. My Dad was born in the late 1920s. He understood this fact in the early ’80s and onward. He bought a VW Jetta (I wanna say around 1983) which other than having an annoying loud engine was a hell of dependable car for that time period, and the next car he bought—-any drumroll for me…….. ?? A Toyota Camry. Now my father owned only two cars after that to the time he died in 2012. Two white (different year model obviously) white Toyotas. Near exactly 22 years, two cars. OWNED, lock, stock, and barrel. He helped me haggle (the nervous nelly with his expert Dad, no exaggerations there) for my first car, a Toyota Camry (black. the worst color you can get for a car, because of heat attraction, but we knew that and got a steal price). And he paid for part of my sister’s Honda Wagon Civic which looked very similar to this https://images.app.goo.gl/F17f3GGBQPtMhnek9

      All of these cars were great cars. My sister’s red Civic wagon could have lasted my sister 15 years EASILY but she was/is a horrible driver, and treated and “maintained” that car like it was her evil stepsister visiting her after recent release from the local penitentiary.

      1. Moses Herzog

        I’m feeling a slight tinge (I said slight now) of guilt over talking cars in such a heavy topic thread….. BUT I can’t stop myself from being a jerk. I wanted to also mention out of respect to my late father, that he was a forward thinking man and ALWAYS READING clear into his octogenarian years. My father had “moved on” from Toyota in the near months before he died. His top choice for a car when he died??? The low to medium-end priced Kia models. He was quite impressed with Kias when he died. Take notes kids, and keep reading Consumer Reports etc ad infinitum.

  10. pgl

    A comment from yesterday that is more appropriate under this post:

    Local newspaper stands up to Trumpian hate:


    “Our real problem is that there are too many cowards in our midst. Yes, we said it: Cowards. Cowards who blanch at the idea of Somalis “just walking around” on a public trail. Cowards who cost local businesses thousands of dollars by overreacting to a mismarked security vehicle out of fear of Sharia law — which isn’t coming for us. It just isn’t, and only cowards believe it is. Cowards who festoon their pickup trucks with loud mufflers and confederate flags to strike fear in others as they attempt to cover their own inadequacies. Cowards who are too afraid to shop, dine or relax in contrived “no-go zones” also used by people “not from Norway” who like to shop, dine and relax.”

    Who are these cowards?


    ‘On Friday, a New York Times article made the rounds which profiled the Concerned Community Citizens (“or C-Cubed”) of Saint Cloud, Minnesota, an Islamophobic group obsessing over the local population of Somali refugees and fretting about white replacement. “I think of America, the great assimilator, as a rubber band, but with this — we’re at the breaking point,” Kim Crockett, vice president of a think tank called the Center of the American Experiment, told the Times. “These aren’t people coming from Norway, let’s put it that way. These people are very visible.”’

    People from Norway are cool with C-cubed but not people who practice Islam. C-cubed are Trump’s kind of people.

  11. randomworker

    Not only did they get away with murder, they’ve been reprehensible a**holes [edited MDC] ever since.

    1. pgl

      “A group of Holocaust survivors and their families gather in Prague’s Old Town Square to recreate a photo that was taken in 1945, when the survivors had just been liberated from Nazi concentration camps.”

      Hitler did not manage to kill all the Jews – thankfully! Stephen Miller aspires to exceed Hitler’s wildest dreams. Of course Congress is not giving him all the funds he needs for some reason.

  12. noneconomist

    If Trump was serious about returning “millions” of undocumented to home countries, there would be no easier place to begin than the Central Valley in California. The state’s labor force includes an estimated 1.75 million undocumented immigrants who, as the Public Policy Institute of California notes, “work disproportionately in agriculture, construction, and manufacturing.”
    Example: Kern County–represented in the House by Kevin McCarthy ( aka “My Kevin”) is the nation’s leading agricultural county. Kern is followed closely by neighboring counties Tulare and Fresno. Agriculture is, naturally, the most important employer in Kern where, by my estimates, about 30% of the farm labor force is undocumented.
    Add in all the families involved and you have the potential for, at least, the deportations of thousands–maybe tens of thousands–of undocumented residents.
    Won’t happen. thankfully of course, because Kern is Trump country( +13 in 2016) where many employers of the undocumented depend on that labor to continue their profitability. And, many of those employers are also solid Trumpers too. It’s no different in Tulare and Fresno.
    Quite unlikely then that the administration will mess with a county whose gross agricultural value was estimated at $7.5 billion last year. An economy that would be devastated with the loss of almost a third of its work force.
    Better to let the rubes believe they’re serious about deporting millions except when the bottom lines of their supporters might be endangered. That way, the true believers can chant “Build that wall” and vow to “Make America Great Again” without too much embarrassment.

    1. pgl

      Remember Pete Wilson? He wanted all these immigrants there in order to keep the wages of farm workers down. But then he realized that the politics of the day might favor a different course so we get Prop 197. That ended up killing the GOP in California. But Trump has proposed Prop 197 on steroids as his winning strategy in more racist parts of the nation. More racist than Stockton and Fresno is a scary reality!

      1. noneconomist

        Mind boggling does not describe the continued right wing babble on immigration, not only in California but across the west and the rest of the country. In May bad weather forced reconsideration of a Yellowstone visit, so we headed south to Utah and an extended route home. Spanish speakers were everywhere.
        South of Salt Lake, I was the only non-Spanish speaker in the McD’s where we stopped for sodas. No change from 13 years ago when we encountered plenty of Hispanics–including about two dozen kids bouncing a soccer ball across a country road– in the ag regions farther north.
        Most unnerving is a guy like McCarthy who sings the Trump song while knowingly tolerating the large number of undocumented workers who are essential to his district. A district, btw, that has an unemployment rate about twice that of the state as a whole and about triple that of the one represented by evil socialist Pelosi.
        Most comical, tragically so: McCarthy is on board with building that wall. Well, as long as doing so doesn’t interfere with growers’ profits raising grapes, citrus, almonds, pistachios…… and those growers freedom to hire whomever.

        1. Moses Herzog

          This gets back to my harped on argument that you never hear Republicans talking about the enforcement of and punitive punishment of those rich white guys who knowingly employ illegals—including people who were nominated for donald trump’s own cabinet—Andrew Puzder for example. Puzder employed illegals by the droves at Carl’s Jr. the same way trump has at his casinos, golf courses/clubs, hotels, and construction projects.

          Of course Nancy Pelosi doesn’t talk about punishing high wealth individuals or large corporations for employing illegals—she’s too busy protecting donald trump from impeachment and praising donald trump as the 2019 version of Winston Churchill for not starting a war over a single drone. Pelosi is very busy you know, that and trying to remember where she parked her car around Union Square Luxury Stores. She has to phone Barkley Junior now every week to remind her when her birthday was.

  13. Moses Herzog

    What type of individuals are attracted to work at “ICE”?? Would you theorize it attracts the same types who are attracted to small-town police departments or mall security (that’s an earnest question)?? Do you imagine this is a rocket science type group?? I don’t know which agency is responsible for taking care of the children at Fort Sill, near Lawton Oklahoma, but if it is “ICE” people should be VERY worried for those children, because it is going to get worse before it gets better. These are the same type individuals attracted to “ICE” work. The same types (generally) attracted to be policeman, mall guards, or prison guards:

  14. joseph

    Ann: “The asylum app is legal — sneaking in rather than going to the border gates and getting permission to come in is NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

    Perhaps you should read the law. Title 8, Section 1158, Asylum:

    “Any alien who is physically present in the United States or who arrives in the United States (whether or not at a designated port of arrival and including an alien who is brought to the United States after having been interdicted in international or United States waters), irrespective of such alien’s status, may apply for asylum.”

    Congress specifically wrote the bolded parts to include asylum for people who do not pass through “the border gates”, with the understanding that people desperately fleeing their countries may arrive through various unofficial paths. So you are absolutely wrong about the requirement that asylum seekers enter through “the border gates.”

    But of course, horrible, ignornant people like you simply don’t care about the laws written by Congress. You are enthralled with authoritarians like Trump that defy the law.

    1. Barkley Rosser

      Yes, Peak Trader and JBH seem to have disappeared. But now we have this Ann, who blesses us with screeching idiocies.

  15. 2slugbaits

    So for those who claim that they aren’t opposed to immigration per se as long as it’s legal immigration, would they approve if Congress and the President changed the law in such a way that the immigrants would be here legally? If the only objection is that they entered the country illegally, that’s a problem that can literally be solved with the stroke of a few pens. My experience has been that whenever I ask this question I’m usually met with a parade of other reasons why we shouldn’t allow those at the border to enter the country. It’s the difference between a good faith argument and a bad faith argument. Mostly I hear bad faith arguments.

    Oh…and the “wait their turn in line” stuff is a bad faith argument. There is no such thing as a “line” or “waiting your turn” when it comes to immigration. The person who waited ten years has no more right to enter the country than the person who has only waited ten days.

    1. Moses Herzog

      As per usual, you show yourself to be one of the more cerebral and lucid commenters on this blog. The only other descriptor you might have added to that 5-star comment about those who think putting children in a cage is patriotic behavior is the word disingenuous. This is just another version of the birth certificate stuff with President Obama—they hate, and so they need a ruse or a tool to deliver their hatred. 98% of them knew the birth certificate contrivance was baloney. But it was a way to convey hatred and hurt President Obama on a very personal level. ICE goons and denial of humanity are the preferred applications of hate now. And if small children be damned in the process, folks like James Lankford couldn’t possibly care less.

      1. 2slugbaits

        Moses Herzog Well, thanks but it’s not all that cerebral. Pretty simple really. Anytime I hear someone make what they regard as a principled argument in which the basis for the supposed principle (viz., immigrants should only be here legally) is just a contingent fact (viz., current law), it’s only natural to ask what they would say if we assumed the counterfactual. It’s a pretty reliable way to distinguish between a genuinely principled argument and a mere cover story to rationalize an uglier motive.

    2. Bruce Hall

      2slug, I do think that the immigration laws need to be reviewed and streamlined because multiple-year waits and thousands of dollars in expenses are incentivizing illegal movement into the U.S. That said, I am not, nor will I ever be, an advocate of open borders/indefinite “visits”. The U.S. and its citizens do have the right to ensure that people entering this country for residence/citizenship purposes have their backgrounds investigated for a criminal past or association with criminals (guilt by association is popular with the anti-Trump crowd). There is also nothing wrong with prioritizing those who bring skills and knowledge that can bolster our economy. That doesn’t mean that the uneducated, poor, and highly-dependent should be shut out, but it does mean that they should have some form of sponsorship or, at a minimum, restrictions on government aid for an initial period.

      True seekers of asylum from political persecution should always be allow sanctuary; poverty is not political persecution or, if you believe it is, then the U.S. has millions of “politically persecuted” poor that should have priority.

      1. 2slugbaits

        Bruce Hall Well, background checks for criminal pasts is pretty easy to accommodate. I’m pretty sure that those babies and toddlers currently held in detention centers would likely pass even the most detailed background check.

        There is also nothing wrong with prioritizing those who bring skills and knowledge that can bolster our economy.

        As Nobel prize winning economist Angus Deaton points out in his book The Great Escape, this is morally problematic. Setting aside the moral problem though, more high skill immigrants would certainly be a good thing for the US economy; however, that doesn’t mean bringing in lower skill workers wouldn’t also benefit the US economy. But more importantly, unlike individual voters with finite lifespans, agents charged with conducting public policy have to look out over an infinite horizon, which means they have to look at future workforces and not just the current workforce. Just because the parents of immigrants might be currently low skilled does not mean their children will be low skilled workers. That’s the lesson of the “Dreamers” and why we should be doing everything we can to keep them in this country.

        True seekers of asylum from political persecution should always be allow sanctuary

        It’s pretty hard to argue that families fleeing the “northern triangle” are not also fleeing violence and political persecution. One problem with the Trump position is that it believes in setting quotas for those seeking political asylum. Quotas are inconsistent with “should always be allow[ed] sanctuary.”

        poverty is not political persecution or, if you believe it is, then the U.S. has millions of “politically persecuted” poor that should have priority.

        Would you be saying that if you lived in the mid-19th century and your name was Bruce O’Hall? Most of us can distinguish between mere poverty and desperation. Do you think the US should have turned away all those Irish fleeing certain death from famine? In any event, why should we care whether someone wants to come here because they are fleeing famine versus merely wanting a better life? In either case you and I are economically better off. Remember, GDP is a flow variable, not a stock variable.

  16. sammy

    I’m inclined to agree with Benamary21. If you look at the facts of the case (as described by benamary21) the racial slur was extraneous to the fight. In other words, the fight was not about race, but stupid stuff that drunk young men fight about. The race taunt was just a throw in. I imagine if Chin were black, or gay, or fat, or latino an entirely different slur would be used that has nothing to do with the zeitgeist of international trade relations.

    1. Menzie Chinn Post author

      sammy: So, let me ask the same question I asked then: do you believe probabilistically that had Chin been caucasian, Ebens and Nitz would have similarly chased Chin for half an hour, tracked him down to the McDonalds, and cracked his skull open? Would Ebens and Nitz have been shouting instead “It’s because of you *** I have a good life” as they wielded the bat?

      1. sammy


        It is absolutely probable that if Chin were white, and acted the same way, the same thing would have happened. They would have just insulted him in another way.

        Chin was not blameless here, he threw the first punch. It was a bar fight. They happen all the time. From my anecdotal experience, I would venture that the majority of bar fights are white-on-white.

        Besides if you are going to blame the stirred up zeitgeist for this tragedy, your side has a lot to answer for with Oberlin, Black Lives Matter, Steve Scaliese shooting, etc.

        1. Menzie Chinn Post author

          sammy: I see. If you punch someone, you deserve to have two people hunt you down over the course of half an hour, through various places, and beat your skull with a baseball bat so your brains ooze out. Understood. I hope justice of that sort greets you someday.

          I think you are deep, deep denial about teh way race impinges on interactions – but I would expect nothing different from you.

        2. pgl

          “Besides if you are going to blame the stirred up zeitgeist for this tragedy, your side has a lot to answer for with Oberlin, Black Lives Matter, Steve Scaliese shooting, etc.”

          Black Lives Matter is to blame for the shooting of Congressman Scaliese? God – you are an IDIOT!

    2. Barkley Rosser

      Oh wow, sammy. You have really lost it here. It is my understanding that the white guys attacked Chin outside the bar. This was not just some bar fight that got some racial insults thrown in. They came out almost certainly drunk, saw him, and went after him. Your story is a pathetic fantasy.

      Yo really need to let this one go. You want to argue about the details of current immigration policy, fine. But trying to rewrite the history of this awful incident really has you looking pretty awful, as well as just stupid.

        1. Barkley Rosser

          OK, sammy, it started in a bar, and Chin may even have thrown the first punch. But we ave a guy who does not remember doing the killing and even attempting to make it look like he did not do it (“why would I swing a bat at his head with my stepson standing behind him?”) and also whining about how he is not able to claim some of the money awarded to the relatives of the man he killed. This is beyond ridiculous.

        2. pgl

          I linked to the same story and commented below. Ebens was very drunk and says his memory of the evening is deficient. And you trust his account? Note also the courts let Ebens off with a very light charge.

          1. Menzie Chinn Post author

            pgl: sammy will believe Ebens’ account because (1) Ebens was white and Chin was not, and for him a white account trumps a non-white; and (2) it fits his preconceived notions.

    3. Willie

      OK, then. I guess it’s OK for non-white people to track down and kill white people because of a bar fight, too. Am I understanding you correctly? And, it must be OK for just about anybody to get drunk, track down, and kill somebody who was previously unknown to them. Sorry, sammy, racist BS is racist BS. You are supporting racist BS. Full stop. Quit digging.

    4. pgl

      “I’m inclined to agree with Benamary21. If you look at the facts of the case (as described by benamary21) the racial slur was extraneous to the fight.”

      Was Benamary21 at this bar that night? If not – then who gives a rat’s a$$ who this troll thinks? Eben denies there was a racial slur even if Chin’s friends all heard it clearly. Of course Ebens admits to be very drunk and not remembering that evening very well. And yet you take his word for everything? Yea right!

  17. Moses Herzog

    What is it exactly that “intuitively” tells me that if another country bombed Israel over a downed drone (it’s already happened at least once folks) and that it killed 150 Israelis (IDF or citizens it wouldn’t change the situation) that JOKE of a “journalist” Margaret Brennan would not call it “just a limited strike”. She’d have 10,000+ high-profile folks of a certain ethnic persuasion up her ___ before the interview had been completed.


    You can say Miss Brennan was “only playing devil’s advocate” by wording it that way, but it’s an asinine thing to say when you equate the potential death of 150 citizens with a drone takedown. IT IS AN ACT OF WAR. PERIOD No wonder Brennan followed Hillary Clinton around like a puppy dog slash unpaid press secretary from 2012 to 2016. Still the little puppy barks.

    1. ilsm

      In for a penny, in for the dollar?

      Taking out the sensors, command center and battery which engaged the US Navy MQ-4C is a logical step toward commencing a campaign against an ‘area denial’ enemy. It is not proportionate materially nor morally. However, since when has ‘proportion’ filtered the US’ planning?

      Here is a bit on the US Navy Triton drone:


      Bloomberg has reported the Global Hawk was actually a US Navy Triton, similar/same airframe as USAF Global Hawk.

      Whether the thing was outside Iranian airspace is not material. The ‘sensors’ on board the Triton and P-8 which accompanied it are suitable to “monitoring the littorals……”

      Note also, one of these Tritons crashed in 2018, as of the last report to congress and per GAO it is not yet cleared for full rate production. GAO’s full loaded cost per the 70 drones to be built is over $200M.

  18. joseph

    Sammy, so in your link Ebens says he has no memory at all of using a baseball bat to beat out Chin’s brains, but he is absolutely certain that he remembers it had nothing to do with race? That’s some selective memory, right there.

    Apparently you claim Ebens is completely race neutral on who he chooses to murder with a baseball bat. He would do it to anyone, no matter their race.

    Well, okay, then.

    1. pgl

      I linked to an interesting 2012 account of this. Ebens was very drunk and has a faulty memory of that evening.

  19. Moses Herzog

    I still hold that racism is closely tied in with lack of education. Now you can show me some very well educated people who are still racists. A lot of Congressman are racists or “play one on TV” (this also happens more than people think, to take advantage of demographics in any state and or leaders of supremacist groups who turn out to be mainly profiteers). We can come up with a list of 30–50 individuals well educated who are still racist. But the predominant factor in people turning into racists or staying racist is level of education.

    And when we see how the vast majority of MAGA voters are non-college grad white males, and non-college grad white females, this adds up. It should also call into question Republicans over the last 4 decades doing their damnedest to cut education funding and cut public schoolteacher salaries. You have an ignorant voter base of “adults” who can be led around by the nose like a pack of kindergarten children. Not that Republicans mind that any.

    1. Frank

      Hello Moses,

      James D Watson was awarded the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 1962. Cold Spring Harbor severed ties with James D Watson in 2019:


      William Bradford Shockley, Jr. awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1956.


      In the 1980’s and 1990’s, I wanted to be enlightened and I read (slogged through) the “Critique of Pure Reason” by Immanuel Kant.

      Then, I read Kant’s “Observations on the Feeling of the Beautiful and Sublime”, Section 4 (translation by John Goldhthwait). I don’t know if I have ever read anything more racist.

      Wheeewwww, none of those guys were born in Georgia.

      In my simple understanding of philosophy of science, no number of observations can prove a universal generalization (I think it was David Hume). And, a single counter example refutes a universal generalization: “all swans are white”.

      Why are there highly educated, racist, Nobel Prize winners?

      I would be interested in peer-reviewed articles on origins of racism. I wonder if PubMed or NBER has peer-reviewed journal articles on racism?

      So, if everyone was equally educated, then there would be no racists?


      1. Moses Herzog

        @ Frank
        For the record, I agree with you it is NOT an absolute. William F Buckley, Pat Buchanan, Richard Nixon, donald trump, etc ad nauseam….. I agree we can find highly educated people who are still very racist (I wager Menzie has met a few in the Ivory Towers that he is only going to “name names” when he writes his memoirs in post-retirement). But I still hold, the greatest inoculation against racism is a high quality education. And the farther up those ladder rungs you go— non-college, college attendee, graduate, post-grad, Masters, Phd—then the percentage of racists is going to drop—with the most drastic definitive line being “non-college” vs 4–year accredited university bachelors.

        We are in agreement , and your point is very well made.

        I believe there is a big red line between talking absolutes and generalities. In fact I even believe there is such a thing as generalities when we discuss racial characteristics–that is you cannot say something absolutely as regards races–but you can identify generalities, including but not limited to positive generalities. That has gotten me into trouble on other blog threads. Now I have a significant portion of German blood (not 100%, but significant). If I said I believe there are negative qualities we can generally observe in German people, and that they have to a large degree earned the jokes and bad reputation by WW1 and WW2, that these things didn’t happen in a vacuum, does it mean I am racist to my own race?? Or am I just observing a hard reality of something inherent (in a GENERAL way) to the German race?? You be the judge.


        This last one reminds me of the film “Green Room”, and I’m telling you this female journalist has about 100 times more courage then I will ever have. There are some offensive symbols and offensive arm gestures in this video, if that offends or triggers you then I advise not to click on it:

        These things are happening right now in Germany while donald trump shows right-wing leaders in Europe how to lead a general populace around by the nose and Nancy Pelosi just can’r bear to be so cruel as to bring impeachment proceedings. When exactly would you use those??—what conceivable time would you use impeachment proceedings If not now!?!?!? Only Nancy Pelosi, somewhere lost in a large upscale shopping mall parking lot looking for where she parked her car, only she can tell you.

  20. pgl

    A story that contains CoRev’s favorite two lies:


    Trump Ag Dept Conceals Studies About Impact Of Climate Change On Food Production

    ‘The Trump administration’s Department of Agriculture is concealing government-funded studies about the harms climate change will wreak on the farming and food production industry, Politico reported. The studies have been conducted by scientists within the Ag Department and approved by the Agricultural Research Service. They focus specially on the negative impacts of increased levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere on the farming and cattle industry. Among many concerning findings, the studies found that rice does not contain as many vitamins when grown in carbon-heavy environments and carbon dioxide increases can reduce the growth of grasses needed to raise cattle. According to Politico’s review of the promotion of the studies department’s studies in the past, the Trump administration is breaking with precedent by not boosting the studies, meant to be pitched to agricultural journals and shared with farmers.’

    CoRev is a climate change denier who also tells us incessantly that farmers are doing great under Trump. Of course real research shows both claims are false but CoRev does not waste his time reading real research.

    1. CoRev

      Pgl, with certitude quotes from that scientific jurnole, politico: “…the harms climate change will wreak on the farming and food production industry, reported. ” Another model-based study that predicts with certitude, WILL WREAK. Really!? No caveat anywhere?

      Meanwhile back in the real world, a recent report from Indiana said soybean and corn planting seasons are over and production in that state alone is already down ~20+% . If we have a continued wet Summer and/or if we have an early freeze production could be cut as high as 40-50%. Indiana isn’t even the hardest hit nor the heaviest producer of these crops.

      Yet, pgl, takes the scientific jernool, Politico’s analysis as the final and most valid EVAH! You do amaze!

      1. pgl

        “a recent report from Indiana” which you can’t even bother to link to or provide the author and title. Let me guess – it did not say a damn thing about the long-term effect from climate change.

        C’mon CoRev – we know you are really stupid and incredibly dishonest. But damn – this is a low even for you!

        1. CoRev


          Pray (hope if you do not pray) we do not have and early Fall/Winter in those states. A shortened growing season will further cut harvest totals.

          This is the planting %. https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/65005699_10157367287724872_2253393336746377216_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQnRkQCYFQ6UV1sSGk4oiPy9lIPchcTUSXb_Nq9LScHkIEqwjB1pp5iXnD6oR6PbwMBYQpSSvNVo6VU5wIF9G7_D&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=a693814fbde01ea9dbf21a0c2451c1e5&oe=5DBF83FA

          Don’t forget, I’m not an economist, but I am an old man with experience and a memory. This is one time where I would appreciate some of 2slug’s contrary news.

    2. Barkley Rosser

      But, pgl, he is an expert on climatology. He has told us so many times while lecturing on people here not knowing the difference between weather and climate. And he has read some books.

      Not only that, but he is a gentleman farmer. He even once told us about the views of a farmer friend of his, a reallyi smart guy who does not take money from the government because he is so principled.

      And, of course, lying behind his climatology expertise is his major role in the US space program that won him countless awards of various tyes, including a medallion that went to the moon and back supposedly, although exactly what he did to get all this remains unclear, and he did this with a nonexistent womens’ studies degree. What a genius.

      1. pgl

        “And he has read some books.” All written by Dr. Seuss I presume! Actually Dr. Seuss’s various writings have a lot better understanding of how people interact in the real world than one would get from a VDARE type like CoRev.

  21. pgl

    Ronald Ebens, the man who killed Vincent Chin, apologizes 30 years later


    Ebens certainly got off light for the killing of Vincent Chin. Those who would argue that was not racial are relying on Ebens account:

    “After 30 years, the killer of Asian American icon Vincent Chin told me in an exclusive interview that the murder known as a hate crime, wasn’t about race, nor does he ever even remember hitting Chin with a baseball bat.”

    OK then Ronald – what did you hit him with that caused his death. Those that take Ebens account of this unfortunate incident – note this:

    ”Chin’s friends testified that Ebens made racial remarks, mistaking Chin to be Japanese. And then when Chin got into a shoving match, Ebens threw a chair at him but struck Nitz instead…. And then he quickly added, almost wistfully, “I don’t know what happened.” Another time in the interview, he admitted his memory may be deficient. “That was really a traumatic thing, ” he told me about his testimony. “I hardly remember even being on the stand.” He admitted that everyone had too much to drink that night.”

    He was drunk, there was a baseball bat, Chin’s friends remember the racial slurs. And yet Ebens got off light. Go figure!

  22. pgl

    Imagine had Bruce Hall been on Morning Joe:


    While he’s become a vocal critic of key members of Trump’s White House, Scarborough tore into Vice President Mike Pence over Pence’s remarks to CNN’s Jake Tapper over the weekend about the conditions at youth immigrant detention centers, particularly at the U.S.-Mexico border. Scarborough raised Pence’s self-professed Christian faith and suggested the vice president needed to reread some key parts of the New Testament. “Mike Pence is lying about children living in torturous positions right there. Mike Pence, who claims to be a Christian, a devout Christian — I’m sure he is, but he uses it as a political badge of honor. Mike should read the gospels again and see what Jesus says about the treatment of little children. You can start at Luke 17:2,” Scarborough said. “You have got to explain to us what does the administration think they are gaining by allowing children to walk around with lice and walk around without diapers and 8-year-olds having to take care of 2 or 3-year-olds? What does the administration think it gains?”

    Bruce Hall’s stance on this issue is even more repugnant than Pence’s. Hey Bruce – be a man and go utter your contempt for Latinos on the air before Scarborough!

  23. pgl

    Trump’s racist policies on immigration are scaring our children:


    ‘House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) said on Monday that she told President Donald Trump that he was “scaring the children of America” with his mass ICE raids planned for this past weekend…“When I spoke to the President, I said ‘Look, I’m a mom, I have five kids, seven, nine grandchildren and children are scared. You’re scaring the children of America, not just in those families but their neighbors and their communities. You’re scaring the children,’” Pelosi said. “And I do think that some of these groups did weigh in on the President.”’

    Yesterday as I was walking to the store, I heard some young boy behind me constantly asking his mom “why do you love Donald Trump’? His question was spot on but mommy’s answer was rather weak. I finally took a peep and mom was some young blonde with an expensive outfit one would think some Swedish model might wear. Yea – there are some rich dudes in my neighborhood and this gold digger landed one. But I have to give it to the young man – he struck me as a lot smarter than his own mom.

    It strikes me that a lot of our kids are smarter than a lot of Trump’s adult supporters. Of course people like Bruce Hall and Sammy could care less if Hispanic kids are being scared. Funny thing – Pelosi was referring to white kids being scared as well. I wanted to high five my young neighbor but I’m sure mommy would have been enraged.

  24. pgl

    Ah the heroes of Bruce Hall and Sammy! Stephen Miller is Trump’s immigration guru. When he attended Duke – he was a big fan of VDARE:


    Originally established in 1999 by the Center for American Unity, a Virginia-based nonprofit foundation started by English immigrant Peter Brimelow, VDARE.com is an anti-immigration hate website “dedicated to preserving our historical unity as Americans into the 21st Century.

    “But there’s no doubt that something in that book got to [President Donald Trump], because the way his speech was set up. His announcement speech went to the question of Hispanic crime, specifically rape. And [Ann Coulter]’s book is a very powerful statement of the fact that crime in this country is ethnically variegated. There’s ethnic specialization in crime. And Hispanics do specialize in rape, particularly of children. They’re very prone to it, compared to other groups.”
    — Peter Brimelow on President Trump’s immigration policies at the American Renaissance conference, 2017

    “America was defined — almost explicitly, sometimes very explicitly — as a white nation, for white people, and what that means is that there is virtually no figure, no law, no policy, no event in the history of the old, white America that can survive the transition to the new and non-white version. Whether we will want to call the new updated version ‘America’ at all is another question entirely.”
    — Sam Francis, VDARE.com, July 21, 2003

    “Jewish activity collectively, throughout history, is best understood as an elaborate and highly successful group competitive strategy directed against neighboring peoples and host societies. The objective has been control of economic resources and political power. One example: overwhelming Jewish support for non-traditional immigration, which has the effect of weakening America’s historic white majority.”
    — Kevin MacDonald, VDARE.com, Nov. 14, 2006

    “What race realists find most infuriating about the liberalism of the last half century is not just that it has lost its instinctive appreciation for the culture and people of the West but actively, viciously attacks them. Whites are doing something no other people have ever done in human history. Our rulers and elites welcome replacement by aliens, they vilify our ancestors and their own, they sacrifice our interests to those of favored minorities, and they treat the entire history of the West as if it were a global plague of rapine and exploitation. This is a disease that is killing us, and we must fight it head on.”
    — Jared Taylor, VDARE.com, July 4, 2008

    1. Moses Herzog

      Peter Brimelow was an editor at Forbes magazine for a significant time frame. Which I have stated at least twice on this blog before, along with his VDARE ties. I’m glad you reiterated it though, as it bears repeating, especially in connection to Stephen Moore.

  25. Moses Herzog

    I saw this paragraph in the book I am currently reading (at my usual snail’s pace). “Jewish Comedy: A Serious History” written by Jeremy Dauber. I thought it very fitting in this thread:

    “The most obvious reason for the failure of Enlightenment rationalism to cure European anti-Semitism is a fact of human nature, one illustrated in literature and culture from Romeo and Juliet to All in the Family and The Jeffersons: prejudice dies hard. There’s a vast difference between intellectual acceptance of a phenomenon and it’s emotional acceptance. Even people who genuinely believe in religious toleration don’t necessarily want Jews as their neighbors or in-laws.”

    1. Moses Herzog

      I should apologize to Mr Dauber. I typed “it’s” instead of its, which is my mistake not the book’s. I am extremely sorry for that.

  26. Moses Herzog

    That’s the first Candace Owens reference we’ve had on this blog. I knew eventually someone would top my Tiny Tim reference. It was only a matter of time.

    Thought I would post this up. I watch gold and Bitcoin mainly for laughs, but it can be a relatively good indicator of market panic. Make your own conclusions kids:

  27. pgl

    Iran’s Supreme Leader tells us what he thinks of Trump and his sanctions:


    Iran on Tuesday sharply criticized new U.S. sanctions targeting the Islamic Republic’s supreme leader and other top officials, saying the measures spell the “permanent closure” for diplomacy between the two nations. Iran’s president described the White House as “afflicted by mental retardation.” President Hassan Rouhani went on to call the sanctions against Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei “outrageous and idiotic,” especially as the 80-year-old Shiite cleric has no plans to ever travel to the United States.

    1. Barkley Rosser

      But they have also put a block on Foreign Minister Zarif from entring the US, which would prevent him from speaking at the UN or doing any diplomacy here with US diplomats. This rather seriously undermines the claim that Trump wants to talk with the Iranians rather than just further bully them without any justification.

  28. pgl

    Embarrassed by all of this, they moved 249 of these children:


    “The U.S. government has removed most children from a remote Border Patrol station in Texas near the border with Mexico following reports that more than 300 children were detained there and caring for each other with inadequate food, water and sanitation. Only about 30 children remained at the station outside El Paso on Monday, Rep. Veronica Escobar said after her office was briefed on the situation by a U.S. Customs and Border Protection official.”

    Let’s hope their situation improves but note what they had to deal with:

    They described a 4-year-old with matted hair who had gone without a shower for days, and hungry, inconsolable children struggling to soothe one another. Some had been locked for three weeks inside the facility, where 15 children were sick with the flu and another 10 were in medical quarantine….But Clara Long, an attorney who interviewed children at Border Patrol Station 1 last week, said conditions were not necessarily better there. “One boy I spoke with said his family didn’t get mattresses or blankets for the first two nights, and he and his mom came down with a fever,” said Long, a senior researcher with Human Rights Watch. “He said there were no toothbrushes, and it was very, very cold.”… Government facilities are overcrowded and five immigrant children have died since late last year after being detained by Customs and Border Protection. Two weeks ago, a teenage mother with a premature baby was found in a Border Patrol processing center in McAllen, Texas after being held for nine days by the government.

    But Bruce Hall is fine with this abuse of these kids?

      1. noneconomist

        Probably because “those people” aren’t entitled to actually pursue life, liberty, and happiness.

      2. pgl

        Trump blames the Democrats for not enough funding to take care of these kids. But Pelosi is about to pass a $4.5 billion package in the House. Only problem – McConnell will water down the provisions before he lets this pass the Senate. Yep – the DC blame game rather than a real solution.

      3. pgl

        Here is the story:


        House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said on Tuesday a $4.5 billion aid package aimed at addressing the migrant surge along the U.S.-Mexico border ”will pass when we bring it to the floor.” House Minority Whip Steve Scalise said, ”Why didn’t Speaker Pelosi bring this bill up weeks ago?’

        Scalise could have proposed a similar bill but he didn’t. Typical GOP BS!

  29. pgl

    Trump’s Border Vigilantes


    ‘They Are Committing A Crime’: State, Local Police Were Alarmed By Border Vigilantes

    Almost immediately after learning that a border militia known as the United Constitutional Patriots (UCP) was making mass armed “arrests” of migrants and asylum seekers at the southern border, state and local law enforcement in New Mexico expressed alarm.

    State Attorney General Hector Balderas’ (D) office “want[s] to come out swinging … we’ll see,” Tripp Stelnicki, communications director for Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham (D), wrote to colleagues on April 18.
    “In any other circumstance this could/or would likely be a crime,” newly-appointed New Mexico State Police Chief Tim Johnson wrote to others in the state’s Department of Public Safety (DPS) a few hours later. “Agg Assault with a deadly weapon.”
    “I don’t know if the immigrants have indicated adverse thoughts/feelings, but the practice of using a rifle mounted light to ‘flag’ must cease,” he added, referring to the border militia’s reported use of rifle-mounted flashlights to spot people crossing the border.
    “If this is happening in Doña Ana County, shouldn’t we be investigating these guys? They are committing a crime of Aggravated Battery with a Deadly Weapon,” a Doña Ana County Sheriff’s Department sergeant wrote separately to a superior a day later.
    “I may not agree with these people coming across the Border this way, but the Law is what it is and things will not change until the Law Changes,” he added. “This Militia can’t take the Law into their own hands, someone is going to get hurt.”
    So began a weeks-long chain of events that was ignited by a blistering April 18 letter from attorneys at the ACLU of New Mexico — warning of “an armed fascist militia organization” making arrests at the border without legal authority to do so — and has so far resulted in the two most prominent UCP members facing federal charges.
    The internal emails, obtained by the ACLU of New Mexico via a public recordsrequest and shared with TPM on Monday, reveal both that high-ranking officials were surprised by the border militia’s actions — “First we’ve heard of it,” Stelnicki wrote after receiving the ACLU’s letter — and that there was some initial confusion over how to address the situation

  30. Moses Herzog

    @ Barkley Junior
    It’s good that as a professor you never LIE about things Barkley. Or LIE about the same thing MULTIPLE times It makes you about as trustworthy as a cryptocurrency for the knowledge you pass on to your students.

    No one other than yourself mentioned Quora until you used it to “support” a really bad/FALSE argument. But hey, it’s not like we can back-check you here Barkley, so have at it.

    Anyone (including Menzie) is very welcome to back-check my comments to see if I even mentioned Quora, much less used it as a “source” before the date on Barkley’s comment. You’re going to be looking a very long time, because it’s not there.

    1. Barkley Rosser


      Oh dear, you are really going off the deep end again. Yes, I linked to it. so I was there, the only time I ever was. As it is, it was one of several links making the same point when I googled the question, and I used it, frankly knowing nothing about Quora, and I still know nothing about it.

      I never said you used it. You were the one who denounced me for using it, supposedly a terrible crime according to you, although I remain unaware of why it is supposedly such a bad site. Is it on the same level as National Enquirer? The fact I quoted from it is a fact, although one you have persistently and stupidly and ignorantly denied, as I have explained numerous times. I was not lying when I did so, and I remind you, Moses, that you have received zero support from anybody here on this matter, zero. Bringing this stuff up again just makes you look very stupid and ignorant. CoRev’s lies are closer to being sensible than this garbage.

      While you are at it, since neither I nor 2slugbaits know and you are so worked up about this, why is it that Quora is such a bad source? However, probably going on about it will prove just to be a waste of everybody’s time here.

      1. Moses Herzog

        @ Barkley Junior
        Anyone can look at your claims that you never used Quora, now admitting that you do use it (after being called out), by looking at the the archive link in my comment above. You also tell the lies of a 12 year old. One second praising the site, the next second saying you never read it, the next second using it to “support” an argument related to DNA and DNA distribution over a large population sample. The same population sample YOU said was “skewed”, but the same researchers you yourself quoted said was uniformly distributed. If you were a typical commenter here, say like CoRev or Ed Hanson, you could be passed over as the typical dumb-A$$. But since you label yourself a “professor” you might want to try to get your facts right just maybe 9 out of 10 times–instead of your seeming current rate of about 2 out of 10—if that.

        1. Barkley Rosser


          I admit that I was wrong in saying I had never been there and thought I had quoted somebody quoting it, when it was me quoting it. I do not Ihink that I have praised Quora. I think I have made no judgments about it at all. I quoted a post there that seemed well informed and thoughtful, but perhaps lots of other posts there are utter garbage. I do not know as I have never been there but that one time. I have never read anything else there. I do not know what goes on there. And you are misquoting what was from there.

          You have made a huge fuss about how awful Quora is, but I have not seen any evidence from you that it is or why you think it is. It may be. I do not know. But if you are going to go around dumping on 2slugbaits by saying that he sounds like me quoting Quora as if this is something awful, I suggest you provide some evidence that it is awful and why, and it had better not be that you disagree with the post on it I quoted. That one was very well informed and not remotely awful, even if it did not support the nonsense you were spouting and are doing so again here.

          Moses, Moses, Moses, not only has not a single person here supported your basic arguments, but quite a few have criticized them. You have just repeated the stupidest and most incorrect thing you have posted yet again. You have done so many times, and while I have ignored it some times, I have often pointed out yet again that you are just plain wrong, wrong, wrong.

          So, so very tired of having to do this yet again, but apparently it is necessary since you have repeated this utter bs yet again. The article that you keep dragging in here said that the characteristics were evenly distributed across the genome. It did not say it was evenly distributed across the population. But you have repeatedly insisted, again right here, that it said the characteristics were evenly distributed across the population. For the umpteenth plus time, Moses, A GENOME IS NOT A POPULATION! Got it?

          This is so outrageous on your part, I have to ask, since you have mentioned it. Have you fallen off the wagon and started drinking again?

          Also, I would suggest that one reason Jim H. may not be posting your screeds is that he has seen you pull this junk and make these idiotic and simply wrong statement over and over and over again, always with a massive amount of self-righteous ranting. You should keep in mind that he is one of the world’s leading time-series econometricians and is probably less tolerant of blazing stupidity and ignorance being repeated on matters regarding probability and statistics than Menzie is, who is a capable time-serie econometrician, but not in the same league as either Jim or Bob Flood, who have invented econometric techniques.

          I also note a difference between you and CoRev. You just keep repeating the same dumb and disproven garbage, whereas CoRev at least makes up fresh lies when confronted. So you just keep repeating that the characteristics are evenly distributed across the population over and over incorrectly. When I mocked him for claiming he got a medallion that went to the moon and back for his work on the US space programs, well, then he added a Fed 100 award, coin challenges, plaques, etc. Then we got an Apollo 11 award, which has since become plural, Apollo 11 awards, with maybe one of those the medallion, which is apparently in a drawer and not on his wall. The guy is a shameless Trump-like prevaricator, but at least he is smart enough and sober enough to know he should not just repeat almost verbatim the same old garbage that has been repeatedly shown to be just that, garbage.

        2. Barkley Rosser


          For the umpteenth plus nth time, what the researchers said was that the characteristics are uniformly distributed across the genome, not across the population, and they are not the same thing and do not imply each other. Nobody has agreed with you on this point, and several have agreed with me that you have been wrong on it. Why do you keep repeating yourself on this matter?

          I find it funny you describe CoRev as a “typical commenter.” The difference between him and you is that when he is shown to be wrong, he makes up a new lie and moves on. You just keep repeating the same old stuff, even if it has been shown to be outright hooey multiple times as with this matter.

          1. CoRev

            Barkley, show us 1 lie from me. I have a whole series of yours just from your father’s story.

          2. Barkley Rosser


            Did you not lie when you told us that you got a degree in womens’ studies? Of course, at that point you were not “playing the game” supposedly, whatever that meant.

            As it is, I have said nothing untruthful regarding my late father’s role in the US space program. He was the person who figured out that the capsules in space were operating on sidereal time while those on the ground were operating on solar time and got them to fix that dangerous discrepancy. I additionally pointed out that if that had not gotten fixed, the Apollo program would have been a total failure, which is also true. Of course you proceeded to claim that I said things I did not say. But that is how you operate with everybody, CoRev, not just me.

            Or maybe you think he was not really the author of the book published in 1946 and still in print, _The Mathematics of Space Flight_. As it is, unlike any of your claims, that one is easily checked.

          3. Barkley Rosser

            As it is, CoRev, this is another area where we can catch you actually lying. You misrepresent what I say then claim Iied. That is you lying, not me. Recent example on this, you claiming that I said my late father “saved the Mrecury, Gemini, and Apollo programs.” I never said that. I said he saw the landings getting further and further off the longer they were up, but made it clear this was only a potentially fatal problem for Apollo. I never said fixing the clock problem “saved” either Mercury or Gemini. You claiming I did is just a plain lie.

            You do this with others also. You are serial liar. It is frankly disgusting.

          4. CoRev

            Barkley doubles down on his claim: “I additionally pointed out that if that had not gotten fixed, the Apollo program would have been a total failure, which is also true. Of course you proceeded to claim that I said things I did not say. “I additionally pointed out that if that had not gotten fixed, the Apollo program would have been a total failure, which is also true. Of course you proceeded to claim that I said things I did not say. ”

            Actually, you ASSERTED without evidence that Mercury and Gemini along with Apollo would have been a TOTAL failures. And I claimed that to be an exaggeration. I can assure that FROM MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE Apollo would not have been a TOTAL failure, assertion of it being true is wrong.

            This claim is the funniest: “Of course you proceeded to claim that I said things I did not say. ” When all I did was quote your own changes in the story.

            Now you’re asserting, without evidence, that I did not get Women and Gender Studies degrees. Now that might be true if I was being sarcastic over your need to question my credentials. Was I? 😉

  31. Barkley Rosser


    You are going to have to reproduce where I said that he “saved Mercury and Gemini.” I never said that. You are lying, again. And, yes, if the clocks had not been fixed, anybody going to the moon would have gone into deep space. Your unverified claims to know a lot about the space program are unsurprising completely without any credibility you do not understand that.

    This is your modus vivendi, and ai am going to suggest to Menzie that he needs to just let it go, becuase yiu aer pulling it on him. You just keep making up new stuff, usually twisting something that was sais, never stopping and never letting go. Here you are with me continuing to just flagrangly lie about what I said while exhibiting serious ignorance about space flight, after having made an absolutely ridiculous set of claims of having a medallion that went to the moon and back along with multple amounts of all kinds of awards, with not a single shred of this verified.

    As Dave said to Moses, you need to just stop.

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