And the US is fast approaching Italy’s record.
Source: FT, accessed 17 September 2020.
Note that Sweden’s neighbor Denmark has suffered a much lower fatality rate, even though over the past two quarters, it has experienced an only marginally lower growth rate (8.9% vs 8.1% for Sweden, not SAAR).
Now Menzie – you included the Blue States. Trump has decided to exclude these from the totals to make the situation look better.
But wait – 90 thousand people in the Red States died from this virus. That is 45.7% of the total deaths. Now what is the share of total population that live in the Red States?
Since the Divider in Chief has decided to politicize this virus basically telling the Blue States that they are like Puerto Rico after Maria, let’s do this per capita in Red v. Blue. Something tells me that this is not going to improve the data calculated properly.
September 17, 2020
Coronavirus
US
Cases ( 6,846,033)
Deaths ( 201,769)
Deaths per million ( 609)
———————————–
Sweden
Cases ( 87,885)
Deaths ( 5,864)
Deaths per million ( 580)
———————————–
China
Cases ( 85,223)
Deaths ( 4,634)
Deaths per million ( 3)
https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/1305506522441699333
Paul Krugman @paulkrugman
I haven’t seen much reporting on Israel’s coronavirus disaster. But it shows how easily gains can dissipate if you get careless; and now they’re entering a second lockdown
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eh4XOAWWoAE0MRz?format=jpg&name=small
9:59 AM · Sep 14, 2020
September 17, 2020
Coronavirus
Israel
Cases ( 172,322)
Deaths ( 1,163)
Deaths per million ( 126)
———————————–
July 4, 2020
Coronavirus
Israel
Cases ( 29,170)
Deaths ( 330)
Deaths per million ( 36)
Having apparently approached a containment of the coronavirus, the Israeli government incautiously opened schools and businesses, and the result has been a persistent community infection spread contributing to what are now 172,322 cases in the small country as compared to 85,223 in all through all of mainland China.
Israel has tragically doubled the number of coronavirus cases in mainland China.
Beyond the mistake of the incautious opening, the need is to look to what was obviously an unanticipated institutional public health or healthcare system weakness in Israel. Determining how the Israeli healthcare system should be strengthened, could serve as a model.
My senior Senator is on a roll:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/schumer-pelosi-trump-mcconnell-covid-relief
On President Donald Trump, Schumer said: “What a despicable man, how low can you go?”
And referring to Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY): “The keeper of the graveyard.”
I never thought I wold hear this from Schumer who is definitely a politician of my generation who grew up believing that you better keep saying nice things about Republicans even as they called Democrats traitors and perverts on an every day basis. Apparently even Schumer has gotten to the point of having no more fucks left to give about the tender feelings of Trump, McConnell, and Republican politicians.
September 17, 2020
Coronavirus
India
Cases ( 5,212,623)
Deaths ( 84,400)
There were 96,730 new coronavirus cases recorded in India today. Cases have climbed above 80,000 daily in the last weeks. The distressing point that should be made is just how undeveloped healthcare infrastructure is in India, for all the growth the last couple of decades. Indian infrastructure in general is poorly developed, as Amartya Sen pointed to in the wake of being awarded a Nobel Prize in economics, but there was little response to Sen from development specialists and even express criticism from Indian economists. Now, we find India in any day recording more coronavirus cases than China has recorded in all.
Undeveloped Indian infrastructure has presented daunting problems in national efforts to limit the coronavirus spread.
The US has already passed Italy if you use the Johns Hopkins data, as per Kevin Drum: https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2020/09/coronavirus-growth-in-western-countries-september-16-update/
Kevin Drum does something clever – the graph shows daily deaths per million (7-day average) while the little black box shows total deaths per million. And yea we passed Italy on the totals and our increase in total deaths per day is much higher than any of those European nations. Very bad and getting worse. Heck of a job Donnie.
I am so glad you linked to Kevin Drum’s post:
‘Bruce HallSeptember 17, 2020 at 5:01 pm
It is true that Sweden has a higher per-capita mortality rate than the U.S.’
Had the village idiot Bruce Hall bothered to check the data provided in that link, he would have known his latest was a lie.
You know CoRev, Sammy, and Bruce Hall need to stop this disinformation campaign here as they are needed to go after Olivia Troye:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/17/politics/former-pence-aide-coronvirus-task-force-slams-trump/index.html
Pence’s former lead coronavirus task force aide slams Trump and endorses Biden in new video
A former top aide to Vice President Mike Pence assailed President Donald Trump’s response to the pandemic in a new video Thursday, adding to the growing list of former Trump administration officials who have criticized the President and, in several cases, endorsed his Democratic opponent Joe Biden.
Olivia Troye, who was a homeland security adviser to Pence and his lead staffer on the White House’s Coronavirus Task Force, charged in the two-minute video that Trump failed to protect the American public because he only cared about himself and getting reelected. Troye’s criticism is particularly striking because of her role working on the coronavirus task force, which Pence leads.
“We knew that there were going to be increasing cases, we knew that people were going to die,” said Troye, who left the White House in late July. “But the President didn’t want to hear that, because his biggest concern was that we were in an election year, and how was this going to affect what he considered to be his record of success?”
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/watch-ex-pence-aide-who-worked-on-covid-task-force-comes-out-for-biden
TPM has more on Olivia Troye as well as the ad that does Trump in. Powerful stuff.
Will we have a vaccine that has successfully passed phase III trials in the next few weeks? Trump keeps saying yes but the director of the CDC doubts it. Of course Trumpian morons like CoRev thinks Trump knows more than the director of the CDC. I’m sorry but anyone with a brain would consult with the key pharma companies like this one:
https://theprint.in/health/astrazeneca-trial-illness-likely-not-linked-to-covid-vaccine-oxford-says/504486/
‘AstraZeneca trial illness likely not linked to Covid vaccine, Oxford says
After safety reviews, Oxford says there is insufficient evidence to say for certain that neurological symptoms developed by volunteers were or were not related to the vaccine.’
OK- the headline tells us we do not have a show stopper but read further:
‘AstraZeneca is also one of several companies taking part in the U.S. government’s Operation Warp Speed program to fast-track a shot. Data from final-stage trials are expected as soon as next month, and AstraZeneca’s Soriot said last week that the injection could still be available by the end of the year. Governments wanting to revive limping economies are watching closely as vaccine testing goes forward, and President Donald Trump has strongly suggested a shot will be available before the Nov. 3 election. U.S. health officials offered conflicting estimates Wednesday of when Americans should expect vaccines to be broadly available, with one saying that the U.S. public could be supplied by the April.’
OK by Christmas not in 6 weeks. But what do they know? News is reporting that both Fauci and Redfield is being pushed out of the way by Team Trump. But CoRev wants to pretend that this is not getting politicized? What a moron.
PGL, do you really want to delay access to the vaccine? How many more deaths will it take to satisfy your TDS disease?
very few if we practice social distancing and wear masks while awaiting results. corev, why do you insist on killing people with your position against masks and social distancing?
CoRev would let his own mother die. I would never say this about anyone but that question of his is an insult to my dear mom who is doing the right thing at age 90 as she has no choice. Vaccine safety is a big deal to any caring person. But of course safety does not matter to a$$holes like CoRev.
Baffled,”your position against masks and social distancing?” Wow! I see you and PGL are both desperate liars.
Disagreeing with all powerful CoRev is lying? You are bonkers/
You know you really are a stupid a$$hole. I want a safe vaccine ASAP. For you to suggest otherwise is disgusting. Now Trump sycophants like you do not care about safety. Try looking up Guillain-Barré Syndrome you piece of garbage. My mom got this horrible symptom from all ill advised rushed vaccine. Somehow she survived but her doctors can never let her take a flu or COVID vaccine for fear she will get this again.
So CoRev – you can go f*** off with your pathetic question.
PGL, somewhere beyond the profanity and personal attacks there must be something more than anger, but you’ve shown no evidence of it.
I see – you could care less if someone’s mother almost died from a rush to approve a vaccine. Go figure!
CoRev,
Do please keep in mind that Trump Derangement Shyndrome is what is suffered by those who cultishly believe the many thousands of lies that Donald J.Trump has uttered since becoming president. It is really a very serious illness. These poor, sick individuals need major medical help, although not as much as the many thousands who have gotten Covid-19 thanks to Trump discouraging people from wearing masks in public.
Nobody would want to delay access to an actual effective proven vaccine. Problem is that what Trump is so intend on pimping, is bio-mush. You cannot call something a vaccine before it has been proven to be safe and effective (by evaluation of the data by a panel of experts).
A lot of corners have been cut with the COVID-19 vaccines already. We will e.g., not have any idea of whether half the recipients will drop dead from hearth failure 6-24 months after the injections. Personally I think the risk of such long term detrimental effects are low enough to ignore because of the threat from the disease. But releasing an unproven “vaccine” injection before it’s even possible to evaluate its efficacy will do a lot more harm than good to public health. For such a move to be pushed for short term political gain is disgusting.
Moderna is doing this right:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-moderna-ceo-november-efficacy/
They are hoping to have efficacy information by something as early as November. If that optimism works out, it will not be before election day as Trump keeps telling us. And this may not yet be enough for FDA approval.
They also note their vaccine is likely not to keep one from getting this virus but hopefully will help people deal with us.
OK – time for Trumpian jerks like CoRev to trash these scientists too. MAGA!
The Lincoln Project gives credit to Trump for having a plan to deal with this virus:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuUX7zRhMKQ
Herd immunity.
i thought his plan was herd mentality?
Trump has an immunity to anything mental!
I think he actually meant Mental Immunity (mental cases will think they can get immunity).
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/17/white-house-abandoned-plan-to-deliver-650-million-face-masks-across-us-report-says.html
White House abandoned plan to send 650 million face masks across the U.S. in April, report says
The U.S. Postal Service had drafted a press release announcing plans to send 650 million masks across the U.S. early in the coronavirus crisis, but the plan was abandoned, The Washington Post first reported. In April, Postal Service leaders drafted an announcement saying the USPS would deliver five reusable face masks to every residence and post office box in the country. The White House ultimately canceled the program, senior administration officials told the Post.
There is no credible way to defend this self centered incompetent boob.
@ Menzie
I think “Princeton”Kopits afghan hound that watches all of his 4:00am guest spots on OAN news may have to grab Kopits’ leash and admit him into a Jersey mental health clinic. This isn’t going to be good for “Princeton”Kopits’ ego or his psyche.
https://econbrowser.com/archives/2020/05/the-intellectual-and-moral-bankruptcy-of-arthur-laffer-and-stephen-moore#comment-236670
I still think “Princeton”Kopits would make a great research assistant for Arthur Laffer at ALEC. I’ll write a letter of recommendation if Kopits needs that.
“Dearest Howling Laffer,
The applicant, Stevie “Princeton”Kopits is embedded with all the prerequisite mathematical incompetence and statistical incompetence to work at ALEC. Not only his mother, but your mother as well, would be proud of Kopits’ continual years ongoing streak at being the last person in the room to laugh at any joke. In fact he rarely even gets the joke, unless it’s at the expense of brown people’s excess death counts, when he has often fallen onto the floor in fetal position in convulsive laughter. His Afghan Hound who he only sometimes takes to his OAN and FOX News interviews really does not shed as much hair in office settings as some contend. If on the rare occasion Kopits gets the math correct and makes your Laffer Curve look nonfactual, you can call PhD Barkley Junior up in Harrisonburg VA and he will provide you with something he calls “Imaginary Skewed Distribution” which can show that any white American woman is in fact ‘Native American’. Thanks for your consideration of this fine Son of New Jersey.”
Signed,
Moses “The Intolerable” Herzog
Moses,
It seems that you share an obsession with Elizabeth Warren with Donald J. Trump. Earlier this evening during his nearly two hour long speech to a rally in Mosinee, Wisconsin, he went off on quite a long rant about her and how he probably had more Native American Indian ancestry than she does, and how “Pocahontas” may have had an ancestor “about 900 years ago, some action going on back then” (big laughs from the maskless packed crowd). Yes, it was quite an evocation of skewed distributions, a spectacle I am sure you would have enjoyed, you having sounded like him so many times here.
Anyway, Shana Tova to you and Alan Goldhammer.
@ Barkley “The Gift That Keeps on Giving” Junior
I want you to sit down right now Junior, please sit down in a soft cushiony seat, and try to get your heart rate at its normal level (3 beats per minute??). Put down your PET scan images you’ve been obsessing about. Don’t worry, Amazon has sent your 3 years supply of Vitamin B-12 in the mail. A decent proportion of Jews (and even Israeli Jews) are secular and even some are atheist. Now, Junior, if you have to redo your PhD thesis that all Jews are orthodox, don’t sweat it, your thesis adviser has probably been dead for over 50 years now.
Excuse me “Barkster,” but this is just garbage gibberish. RBG has just died, but you spout Trump garbage like CoRev and the rest of the gang. Pelosi and Biden are demented? This is how worthless you are.
You can compare national COVID-19 mortality rates here: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105914/coronavirus-death-rates-worldwide/
It’s a bit easier than spaghetti charts.
It is true that Sweden has a higher per-capita mortality rate than the U.S. and some of its European neighbors; its rate is also lower than a half-dozen major European countries. In fact, this metric is the correct one to use when comparing nations and states within nations. Cases are relevant only to the extent that they are tied to mortality rates; likewise, absolute number of deaths.
So, is the U.S. doing a good job or a bad job with regard to COVID-19?
Apparently, the answer is: “It depends.”
I’m sorry, the chart I reference showed death rates per cases.
Death rate per capita is here: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
So, I guess Sweden is slightly lower in per-capita deaths than the U.S., but higher in per-case death rates. Okay, you pick which one you want.
“you pick which one you want.”
We all know you pick whatever Kelly Anne Conway tells you to pick. Good puppet little Brucie!
Kellyanne is probably Anonymous and part of the deep state. Nobody could be around as long as she has and also have the bimbette act down so cold without careful practice. She made up “alternate facts” to make bunker boy and his minions look foolish. And they took the bait.
That is the only rational analysis that addresses the evidence.
1395 new deaths in the US for 9/16? That does seem to be much higher than anyone else. OK, the 7-day average is not quite that high but still very high even in per capita.
There was some troll named Bruce Hall that was telling us 10 weeks ago that this was coming down. What happened to that stupid little liar?
As tests were not readily available in the spring, the deaths per case metric largely shows when major outbreaks occurred during the year.
If the outbreak occurred early and was brought under control, you ‘score’ poorly in deaths per case. If the outbreak drags into mid summer, or a second or third outbreak strikes in mid-late summer, you ‘score’ better in this metric. This second scenario certainly seems like a failure, but we have found a metric that shows it as a success.
These metrics also fail to account for hospitalizations and serious medical injury from the virus. A country filled with long term lung and heart damage sounds like a failure, but the deaths/case metric would make it appear to be a success.
Careful with measuring the wrong things.
“Careful with measuring the wrong things.
Bruce always measures precisely what Kelly Anne Conway orders him to measure. So he can always plead he measured the right thing per the orders from his political masters.
your chart lists 150 nations on a per capita basis. the usa ranks as 9th worst. sweden as 11th worst. this does not look good for either nation. they are both performing in the bottom 10th percentile. not sure exactly what your point is supposed to be. but i am sure you overlooked (once again) how poorly both the usa and sweden have performed in this crisis.
I have said this before. Bruce never has a point. Then again blame Kelly Anne Conway as Bruce strictly follows her orders.
“your chart lists 150 nations on a per capita basis. the usa ranks as 9th worst. sweden as 11th worst. this does not look good for either nation. they are both performing in the bottom 10th percentile.”
Quite right but go look at the latest nonsense from angry CoRev. He makes Bruce Hall look smart by comparison. Case fatality ratio as the appropriate metric when we were late to testing and Trump is putting up roadblocks to testing? Yes – CoRev is THAT stupid.
“It is true that Sweden has a higher per-capita mortality rate than the U.S.”
That is false but then you finally figured out you were graphing death rates per cases. According to Trump – that is the only way to measure this. And like the little puppet he is, Bruce follows along!
Check this out from about 4.5 hours before you posted your latest lie:
‘John
September 17, 2020 at 12:35 pm
The US has already passed Italy if you use the Johns Hopkins data, as per Kevin Drum:
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2020/09/coronavirus-growth-in-western-countries-september-16-update/
Check the link dumbass as Kevin Drum includes Sweden which is even lower in total deaths per capita than Italy. Come on Bruce – you proved a lot time ago you are a raging moron. So relax and stop trying so hard to win the Stupidest Man Alive award as you have that in the bag.
The scientific approach is to find appropriate comparables such as the neighbors which have very similar characteristics but had different containment approaches. That is the end of the scientific evaluation. You seem to be unhappy with the results of the scientific process so you go looking for other not nearly as comparable nations and cherry-pick a presumed (unnamed) half-dozen that give you the conclusion you so desperately are searching for.
That may get you the rattle you are roaming for, but it ain’t getting you the truth or any credibility.
In a post entitled “No Longer Does Sweden Beat US in Covid-19 Deaths per Capita” Bruce Hall writes:
“It is true that Sweden has a higher per-capita mortality rate”
How dumb is that? In the last week, US total deaths rose from 196,446 to 202,213 but Bruce Hall and his Minnie me CoRev claims we have turned the corner because the 7-day average in daily deaths at one point dropped to 750. But wait – do the arithmetic. It is back up to 824.
OK time to do this in terms of Red States v. Blue States. MAGA!
PGL our macabre cheer leader for more deaths.
Co? Come on CoRev – use your full name whenever you spew such disgusting lies. Even though my mom told me to never cuss, in your case, I must. F*** OFF!
Another way to look at national Covid-19 performance is looking at JHU’s Data in Motion Charts: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality Cases and mortality by country. It includes several columns of pertinent data. Take a look at Deaths/100K pop. and Case-Fatality rates. The Case-Fatality rates are a measure of a country’s health system performance.
Just for PGL who seems to have problems following directions, if you can find this chart you might notice a small arrow at the header (if you know what header and arrow means) to order the column’s data. Incidentally there are ~ 50 countries above the US rate in the Case-Fatality sorted column.
Or if looking at the Deaths/100K pop.column we find 10 countries with higher rates in this sorted column. Both Sweden and Italy have lower rates.
There are a near infinite number of ways to look at this data instead of selecting Sweden. We could just as easily have selected any of those countries above the US. For instance we could look at the UK which seems to mostly agree with US’s to policy and particularly Dem preferred policy on HCQ.
CoRev: “The Case-Fatality rates are a measure of a country’s health system performance.” This statement is accurate if testing is taking place at the same intensity and focused on the same groups across countries. Otherwise, this parameter is a mixture of health system performance and testing incidence bias.
Agreed in the early days. Later days they are measure of immunity or the number of PCR being performed. PCR tests after infection surges and its reduction have very high percentages of false positives as they are discovering RNA from fractional or dead virus. It is why testing guidance is changed/changing.
CoRev: Do you listen to the news (aside from FoxNews and Breitbart)? HHS imposed on CDC new testing guidelines for political purposes, and over the objections of career scientific staff.
Last night 2slug said CoRev was as dumb as a “box of rocks”. I think 2slug needs to apologize to rocks everywhere.
Menzie, CDC changed its PCR testing guidance due to science AND NOT POLITICS. Here’s a tid bit of how a PCR test works:
“When the CDC advised against retesting, it specifically stated that the PCR test can amplify RNA from a virus no longer capable of replicating for 90 days post-recovery. It would be typical to find this in recovered patients after their immune system has defeated COVID-19.
It can also be found in individuals who have never been infected by the virus. A positive test has never indicated an active infection or the ability to transmit the disease to others in the absence of symptoms. It could simply mean an individual has reactive T cells that eliminate COVID-19 through an exquisite and healthy immune response. This process may still leave viral debris in their airway that a PCR test can detect.”
This is what I said: “PCR tests after infection surges and its reduction have very high percentages of false positives as they are discovering RNA from fractional or dead virus. It is why testing guidance is changed/changing.”
Corona viruses are quite common and detecting a fractional portion of RNA. They are so common even JHU (and if IIRC ECDC) suggest herd immunity is achieved near 20% and not the much higher numbers believed earlier.
BTW, this is the CDC guidance:
“Considerations for who should get tested
People who have symptoms of COVID-19
People who have had close contact (within 6 feet of an infected person for at least 15 minutes) with someone with confirmed COVID-19
People who have been asked or referred to get testing by their healthcare provider, local or state health department”
You might have a case for politically driven if we were the only country using similar guidelines. We’re not!
Come on – even you cannot be THAT stupid. We started testing late and road blocks from Trump still exist to the appropriate measuring of cases. That was Menzie’s point which went right over your head.
“have very high percentages of false positives”
this is not an accurate statement at all.
Baffled, tell it to the WORLD’S, not just HHS scientists. We’re not the only countries using similar testing guidance.
Jay1 posted the following as early as 5:42am. Alas CoRev failed to understand his point and once again made a fool out of himself by touting deaths per case as something worth considering later in the day. Of course there is that Axios interview of Trump trying to tout this ratio and when the interviewer noted deaths per capita as a more reliable metric, Trump kept saying “you can’t do that”. The stupidity burns!
Jay1
September 18, 2020 at 5:42 am
As tests were not readily available in the spring, the deaths per case metric largely shows when major outbreaks occurred during the year.
If the outbreak occurred early and was brought under control, you ‘score’ poorly in deaths per case. If the outbreak drags into mid summer, or a second or third outbreak strikes in mid-late summer, you ‘score’ better in this metric. This second scenario certainly seems like a failure, but we have found a metric that shows it as a success.
These metrics also fail to account for hospitalizations and serious medical injury from the virus. A country filled with long term lung and heart damage sounds like a failure, but the deaths/case metric would make it appear to be a success.
Careful with measuring the wrong things.
In light of Menzie’s comments, I have decided not to follow your orders. Then again – you and Bruce Hall do a great job of strictly following the orders from Kelly Anne Conway.
“above the US rate in the Case-Fatality sorted column.”
What a dumbass ratio even for you. Hey CoRev – have you figured out how to click on the deaths per capita tab (per 100 thousand)? We’ll wait until your local 5 year old whiz kid comes by and shows you. You might see ours is over 60 which is even higher than Mexico’s. Yea – there are some Latin American nations led by Trumpian fools with higher rates.
And your point is? That you are dumber than a box of rocks? EVERYONE knows that.
“Both Sweden and Italy have lower rates.”
Thanks for pointing this out. Now almost everyone else knew that. But your good buddy stated last night that Sweden has a higher rate than we do.
You two might want to go out on a date to see which one of you two fools is dumber.
“Or if looking at the Deaths/100K pop.column we find 10 countries with higher rates in this sorted column.”
Yea the ‘herd mentality’ Brits are still slightly higher than we are but that will soon change since they have gotten the daily death count a lot better than we have. OK San Marino is in the lead. Hey CoRev – I bet you have no idea where San Marino even is.
CoRev,
You have not figured out by now that emboldening passages just makes you look like as big of an idiot as Moses Herzog? You have been wrong with him on more than one occasion in the past. But then, I get it that you are too stupid to learn. Your performance on this thread has been about as bad as any I have ever seen out of you, and that is a lot of such very stupid performances. Heck, even Moses seems to be smarter than you are, by at least a little bit.
Careful. CoRev and his minnie me Co will accuse you of wanting people to die. He is that pathetic after all.
At least Moses Barkster Herzog will probably not accuse me of wanting people to die, but indeed CoRev might.
From Axios:
In April, the Postal Service “drafted a news release announcing plans to distribute 650 million masks nationwide, enough to offer five face coverings to every American household,” the WashPost reports, based on documents obtained by American Oversight, a watchdog group that requested them under FOIA.
The idea originated at HHS, “which suggested a pack of five reusable masks be sent to every residential address in the country, with the first shipments going to the hardest-hit areas,” per The Post.
Why it matters: Imagine if five months ago, Americans not only got a signal from their government that they should wear masks, but even had them handed to them. Incalculable loss — human and economic — could have been avoided.
i don’t think we had the capacity to distribute that number of masks in april. not sure if we even have that capacity today?
We could if we had tried. Trump does not even try at this or anything else.
Your comment is baffling. Each day the USPS distribute over 180 pieces of mail. With 5 masks in each pack this would be 130 million pieces of mail – or less than one days worth. Remember that this was before Trump began sabotaging the mail system to prevent Veterans from getting life saving medicine (and voters from voting by mail).
that was 180 million pieces per day 😉
Freudian slip?
I dont doubt the usps capacity. My doubts are with our ability to provide so much ppe like masks in april.
Jeffrey,
Masks are probably just a placebo. There are no studies confirming their effectiveness. In fact there is a study reported by the CDC that came to the following conclusion:
“Disposable medical masks (also known as surgical masks) are loose-fitting devices that were designed to be worn by medical personnel to protect accidental contamination of patient wounds, and to protect the wearer against splashes or sprays of bodily fluids (36). There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission either when worn by the infected person for source control or when worn by uninfected persons to reduce exposure. Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza.”
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article
Unless you think that Covid is transmitted significantly different from influenza, face masks make little difference, except to satisfy authoritarian impulses.
Sammy, they probably have fences to keep their ants from escaping. I do wear a mask and think it makes a slight difference. Ms CoRev has asthma and can’t wear one for long.
sammy There are no studies confirming their effectiveness.
This is wrong. You’d be on safer ground if you said that the evidence for the effectiveness of masks is mixed. Some studies fail to find a benefit while other studies do find a benefit. It will be years before there will be enough scientific evidence to settle the issue one way or the other. In the meantime, the costs of being wrong about wearing masks are asymmetric. If masks are not effective and you do wear masks, then the only cost is some minor discomfort and foggy glasses. But if masks are effective, then the cost of not wearing masks is literally one of life and death. Asymmetric indeed.
You might find this interesting:
https://conversableeconomist.blogspot.com/2020/08/wearing-face-masks-mixed-evidence.html
An update on this partisan piece of garbage from Trump:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-blue-states-covid-19-fatalities
‘In his latest effort to politicize the COVID-19 pandemic as the country approaches nearly 200,000 fatalities from the infectious disease, President Trump on Wednesday singled out “blue states” for the country’s jarring COVID-19 death rate. During a briefing at the White House on Wednesday, Trump attempted to paint a rosy picture of COVID-19 cases in the country by suggesting that if “you take the blue states out” of the equation, the U.S. wouldn’t be experiencing an alarming death toll rate from the novel coronavirus compared to other countries. “If you take the blue states out, we’re at at a level that I don’t think anybody in the world would be at,” Trump said. “We’re really at a very low level, but some of the states —they were blue states, and blue-state management.” After Trump singled out Democratic-led states for the country’s increasing COVID-19 fatality rate, without providing specific evidence to support his assertion, he went on to further rail against blue states for not easing up on coronavirus-related restrictions sooner. “By the way we’d recommend they open up their states,” Trump said. “It’s hurting people far more than the disease itself.”’
Yes we know the President is a divisive piece of garbage even as his recommendation to prematurely reopen the states would lead to more deaths if any governor is stupid enough to follow the Clown in Chief. But what’s the evidence on deaths per capita by state?
‘Although states such as New York, California and New Jersey – which are all considered Democratic strongholds in the November election – have experienced high fatality rates from COVID-19, the President failed to acknowledge the surging COVID-19 death toll in red states such as Texas and swing states like Florida. According to Johns Hopkins University, red and swing states such as Louisiana, Mississippi, Arizona and Michigan are ranked in the top 10 states with the highest death rates per 100,000 people from COVID-19.’
So once again Trump is blatantly lying about the data.
TOTAL ESTIMATED US COVID-19 FATALITIES AND WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN
Note that South Korea and the US had their first diagnosed COVID-19 cases at the same time. Adjusted for population differences, if we had the same death rate as South Korea, we would have had total COVID deaths to date of about 2,200 instead of rapidly approaching a total death count of 200,000.
Let’s assume that the US government chose to emulate South Korea’s approach to the virus, and let’s assume that the government was successful in this regard. In round numbers, this would probably imply that we would see a total cumulative COVID-19 pandemic death count of about 5,000 or so in the US.
The following study, which so far appears to be accurate, suggests a most likely US total death count of about 410,000–just through the end of 2020.
Note that the difference between 410,000 and 5,000 is 405,000, which happens to be equal to the estimated total number of Americans who died in the Second World War.
Key coronavirus forecast predicts over 410,000 total U.S. deaths by Jan. 1: ‘The worst is yet to come’
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/04/key-coronavirus-forecast-predicts-over-410000-total-us-deaths-by-jan-1.html
Excerpt:
IHME released three new projections based on different assumptions: a worst-case scenario, a best-case scenario and a most likely scenario. The most likely scenario estimates that Covid-19 will kill 410,450 people in the U.S. by Jan. 1. The worst-case scenario, which assumes that restrictions and mask directives will ease, projects up to 620,028 people in the U.S. will die by then and the best-case scenario, which assumes universal masking, predicts that 288,380 people in the U.S. will die from Covid-19 in 2020.
Olivia Troye was Pence’s #1 aid so lying scum like CoRev cannot say she was too low on the chain of command:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/troye-cites-vaccine-politicization-concerns
Former Pence adviser Olivia Troye has said concern over President Donald Trump’s attempts to politicize the COVID-19 vaccine approval process is among the top reasons that she finally resigned from her post in the Trump administration in July. “What I’m really concerned about is if they rush this vaccine and pressure people and get something out because they want to save the election,” Troye told The New Yorker’s Susan Glasser in an interview published early Friday.
For dimwits like CoRev who do not get why testing matters, here is some news:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/trump-admin-reverses-politicized-testing-guidance-after-interference-exposed
The Trump administration reversed itself on a key effort to politicize the response to COVID-19, reversing a scientifically unfounded recommendation that asymptomatic people in contact with those infected with the virus not get tested. The Centers for Disease Control made the change on its website without fanfare after the New York Times reported Thursday evening that political officials at the Department of Health and Human Services had made the change against the express wishes of CDC scientists. Virtually no other agency or organization took the Trump administration’s advice that people exposed to COVID-19 should not get tested if they’re not presenting symptoms. Evidence that the virus can transmit asymptomatically has been around for months, provoking disgust in the scientific and public health community at the agency’s guidance, which seemed to be directed towards reducing the number of tests overall. From the outset, Trump administration officials pushed back on the idea that the guidance had been issued for political reasons or with the intent of reducing the number of tests – a goal that President Trump has repeatedly pushed for. “Conceptually, we don’t believe the number of tests should go down. Conceptually, we believe the number of tests will go up,” said HHS Assistant Secretary for Health Brett Giroir in a press call last month. Giroir added at the time that the guidance change had been approved by the CDC. “Everyone signed off on it before it got to a place where the political leadership would have even seen it,” Giroir added. Those explanations immediately unraveled, however, in part due to Giroir telling journalists that the change had undergone approval from Dr. Tony Fauci and others at a late August meeting. On the day the meeting was held, Dr. Fauci was in surgery to remove a polyp on his vocal cords. Since then, the guidance change has contributed to a sinking but overwhelming feeling in the scientific and public health communities that Trump administration officials have contorted the CDC, the nation’s premier public health agency, into an arm of his re-election campaign. Friday’s guidance change itself states what science has long understood: “Due to the significance of asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic transmission,” those who have been in close contact with an infected person should be tested for COVID-19.’
There is a war between the scientists at the CDC and certain lying political hacks at HHS. It is good news that the CDC is at least temporarily winning this particular battle.
No now now, pgl, there you go showing that you are against vaccines! Trump needed to get the CDC in line so they will go along with whatever he can get the FDA to approve as a wonder vaccine prior to November 3.
BTW, there seems to be something similar going on in Russia. I have learned from my wife that social distancing regs in Moscow have just been lifted because supposedly the vaccine Putin has been touting, although it had not completed its third round of tests, is supposedly working. But I just checked Statista, and it seems that new infections in Russia bottomed out at about 5,000 per day about a month ago. Since then they have been creeping back up and are now almost back up to 6,000 per day. Hey, this is the sort of record that impresses Trump (and probably CoRev too). Given how much he loves Putin and hoe big of a hoax Russia, Russia, Russia was, I am surprised that Trump has not jumped on this as the savior vaccine, although, oooops! I guess he wants it to be Made In America!!!
i argued previously, trump will use the russian approval of a vaccine as impetus to approve his own here in the usa. the russian vaccine appears to be a con job directed towards trump, getting him to act tough like putin.
We should first test this on Ivanka and Melania. Of course Trump does not care about even then – so the next subjects should be Trump and Pence.
“the vaccine Putin has been touting, although it had not completed its third round of tests, is supposedly working.”
This is why it is called the Russian Roulette.
PGL, I stopped reading after this trash: “Virtually no other agency or organization took the Trump administration’s advice that people exposed to COVID-19 should not get tested if they’re not presenting symptoms.” Had you done any due diligence at all, and actually looked at the CDC guidance you might, ;though I doubt it, have noticed this IS NOT THE CDC GUIDANCE. It is directly opposite.
You believe any and everything, or just make it up. That’s really sad.
Excuse me, but burn in hell, CoRev. You are lying, not for the first time. But Trump’s conduct is responsible for at least 100,000 Americans dead, and your supporting lies make you complicit in that, including this just outright blatant lie. There is scientific evidence that about 10% of the population go into a deep horrifying darkness when they die, not the light that we mostly hear about from “near death experiences.” Sorry, CoRev, but justifying many thousands dying you deserve to go into that ultimate darkness, you utterly worthless scum.
Recognize that the intensity of this comment is partly due to the death of RBG, but it is in fact what I think, although maybe you being a good father and other actions we do not know about will send you into the light rather than that eternal darkness.
That quote is not mine. Try arguing with the folks who wrote it. Or provide actual evidence to the contrary. CoRev – you really hate the real world apparently. And yea – you earlier proved you could care less if someone’s mom died from a vaccine. Your true colors are ablaze.
Barkley, please follow the science. Science is practiced all over the world. Try reviewing some of it not just that presented in the MSM.
PGL, ” Or provide actual evidence to the contrary.” I already have provided alternative policies. Of course the constant in the CDC guidance has been:
“People who have been asked or referred to get testing by their healthcare provider, local or state health department”
But the real problem is with the PCR test. ” CDC Coronavirus Test Kits Generate 30% False Positive and 20% False Negative Results – Connecticut Pathologist’s Newly Published Findings Confirm ” I believe this now peer reviewed reports was responsible for identifying some of the EARLY CDC-PCR test issues.
If you look on the JHU site you will find this guidance: Almost all diagnostic testing for COVID-19 is done using PCR-based methods, which look for the genetic material of the SARS-CoV-2 virus, which causes COVID-19. These methods can only diagnose someone with COVID-19 if they are actively infected” https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/testing-faq/overview
Since these early issues it has been widely accepted that re-tests of infected and later healed/cured/over the infection individuals causes a positive test result but can not tell if the virus is alive or active or actually limited to the Covid-19 RNA. “But they found the tests were able to detect traces of the virus’s genetic material for a much longer period than it remains infectious – meaning a person who tests positive may have the virus in their system, but won’t necessarily pass it on.
Other genetic material it detects might be fragments of dead virus – which have already been dealt with by a body’s immune system.” A reference to ans summary of the study can be found here: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-tests-may-be-picking-up-traces-of-dead-virus-12064151
If you look there are many, many more later breaking references to this “meaning a person who tests positive may have the virus in their system, but won’t necessarily pass it on.
Other genetic material it detects might be fragments of dead virus -”
Barkley, PGL et al follow the science and not just the select MSM sources you currently use.
“CDC Coronavirus Test Kits Generate 30% False Positive and 20% False Negative Results”
this is the upper end of what many of the studies say. there are also studies that say only 2% false positive rate. why not quote those?
corev, if you were really concerned, then you would push for better pcr testing. we have a wild west of fda approved pcr testing, courtesy of the trump administration pressuring the fda to approve anybody who has a test irregardless of its quality. so you get this feedback loop, where you can obtain high false positive results because you permit poor tests to be performed. whoever had access to the presidents ear got approval.
pcr test quality is a function of many factors, and when you relax any of those factors you get worse results. if you are concerned about pcr tests, then you should be a proponent of quality testing and shout to have poor performers removed from the authorization list.
Baffled, timing, timing timing: “I believe this now peer reviewed reports was responsible for identifying some of the EARLY CDC-PCR test issues. ” Do you not remember all the complaints over the early tests??????
If you want to quote a 2% error rate then quote and reference the study. BTW, 2% + or -?
Your whole discussion of PCR tests is BS! ” we have a wild west of fda approved pcr testing, courtesy of the trump administration pressuring the fda to approve anybody who has a test irregardless of its quality… corev, if you were really concerned, then you would push for better pcr testing.” You obviously don’t know what a PCR test is. 1st tell me the cycle count used in the lab or country, then we can talk about different tests and quality from various lab results. There have been reports of 100% positive results from some labs’ PCR tests. They’re either contaminated or running wrong counts.
It’s not about poor PCR tests its about poor collection techniques /training and/or poor lab processes, technicians, guidance or contamination. The Prez does not influence that.
PCR tests will find evidence of infections whether newly infected and/or recovered. It can not tell the individual’s viral load and whether they are shedding the virus (infecting others). These key findings have been known for many months and is common knowledge world-wide about PCR tests. BTW, it appears the several reports of 2nd infections are due to this PCR test failure.
This discussion started over liberal contentions that the early August CDC guidance change was politically motivated and I claimed that it was science-based. I was later challenged to show otherwise. I have. Apparently the most politically driven PCR test guidance change was the return to the prior guidance.
“ You obviously don’t know what a PCR test is. ”
Out of the two of us, i am probably the only one who has actually run a pcr test. I am no expert on pcr tests. But i am fairly certain i know more about them than the guy who reads about them on the internet. Idiot.
MY POINT WAS THAT THE CHANGED GUIDANCE WAS DUE TO SCIENTIFIC FINDINGS/RECOMMENDATIONS AND NOT POLITICS. (Capitalized due to Menzie’s instructions re: how to talk to trolling idiots.) Baffled, if you can not discuss the issue attack the person?
Actually corev, you attacked me. I simply pointed out that out of the two of us, you are the one who has no experience with a pcr machine. Idiot.