Whose Side Are You Rooting For?

A reader writes:

It’s a stealth counteroffensive! Nothing in the US media…a sea change from the heretofore triumphalist “Ukraine is Winning” narrative.

But there is plenty in the Russian media: “Ukraine suffers heavy losses in failed offensive – Moscow”

Gotta keep sifting and winnowing to find the truth…

So, after mocking Ukrainian advances, the writer cites RT. Whose side do you think this person is on?

Well, it’s reader JohnH, on September 2nd, 2022, just before Ukrainian forces reclaimed vast swathes of territory. So when JohnH asks “Where exactly do I relish the hardship of Ukrainians?”, think about that comment.


23 thoughts on “Whose Side Are You Rooting For?

  1. pgl

    Did Jonny boy once again protest he is not cheering on Putin’s war crimes?

    Jonny boy has a habit of denying what he has said in the past – just as he makes up things the rest of us have allegedly said.

  2. pgl

    “In retrospect, the spurned and sabotaged Minsk Protocol is looking better and better”

    Jonny boy’s new favorite line which he keeps repeating. Who spurned and sabotaged the Minsk Protocol? Putin did which Jonny boy keeps cheering on.

    Serious question – has anyone ever known anyone THIS EFFING STUPID?

  3. Macroduck

    More on Mongolia and raw materials and whose side are you on:

    “Mongolia wants to get closer to the U.S. without rattling ‘eternal neighbors’ Russia and China”


    Democracy and market economies on the one hand, neighbors who are nasty when “rattled” on the other.

    Here’s a little analogy – When Shrub identified his “axis of evil” (because rhetorical symmetry and stuff), Iran and North Korea got busy building the nuclear capacity that Iraq didn’t have. When Russia invaded Ukraine (again) and China began threatening Taiwan for having guests drop by, Mongolia and Finland and Sweden got busy tightening links to the West. Knuckling under means you are by god! a puppet state, invaidable at any time. So don’t knuckle under.

    1. pgl

      I found this interesting:

      Beijing buys more than 90 percent of Mongolia’s exports and the country relies on the Chinese port of Tianjin to ship out much of what it sells to the rest of the world. Mongolia hopes that technology may reduce that dependance. “Cargo could be transported by drones” in the future, Oyun-Erdene said.

    2. pgl


      The top exports of Mongolia are Copper Ore ($2.9B), Coal Briquettes ($2.74B), Gold ($2.11B), Iron Ore ($945M), and Animal Hair ($325M), exporting mostly to China ($7.64B), Switzerland ($1.97B), Singapore ($255M), South Korea ($221M), and Russia ($114M). In 2021, Mongolia was the world’s biggest exporter of Animal Hair ($325M).

      Animal hair! Switzerland and Singapore are not consuming those exports of copper, coal, gold, and iron ore. No – they are tax haven affiliates of multinationals who own Mongolian mines which get a fat discount for very limited selling functions. This transfer pricing issue is a big deal and hopefully the Mongolian Tax Authority is challenging it.

  4. Moses Herzog

    If it’s autumn I always want to be on “shirts” team, but in the summer, I might decide to play on “skins” team. I’m very self-conscious though, so it would be better if I could lose 40 pounds first and have some sunscreen handy.

    I’m getting more into the chaos theory thing as I age. Does it matter what we think?? Putin and the Russian army will keep on bombing grain/wheat supplies and residential homes, no matter what I think or hope.

    1. Macroduck

      If it is impossible to know the effect of our actions because of the complexity of causation, then we can relax about possible unintended consequences. If some troll says “But what if your action leads to consequences you did not foresee?”, you simply answer “All actions lead to consequences we cannot foresee. So what? Even no action has unforseen consequences. I will do what I think is right.”

  5. Noneconomist

    Kemo Sabe, you think JohnH speak with forked tongue?
    Lone Ranger: Yes, Tonto. No doubt he lies. A lot.

  6. JohnH

    So is the NY Times now rooting for Putin? “The first several weeks of Ukraine’s long-awaited counteroffensive have not been kind to the Ukrainian troops who were trained and armed by the United States and its allies.

    Equipped with advanced American weapons and heralded as the vanguard of a major assault, the troops became bogged down in dense Russian minefields under constant fire from artillery and helicopter gunships. Units got lost. One unit delayed a nighttime attack until dawn, losing its advantage. Another fared so badly that commanders yanked it off the battlefield altogether.” https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/02/us/politics/ukraine-troops-counteroffensive-training.html

    It’s interesting that some thought it unacceptable to provide information that the US media failed to publish until weeks later. And now it’s poor form to point out that the NY Times and many other news media are finally starting to paint a more accurate picture of what is actually happening. And for some it’s apparently totally unacceptable to provide anecdotal evidence from Western media that the US proxy war in Ukraine may be heading in the same direction as other major US wars over the past 60 years–Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan–a loss after a quagmire.

    George W. Bush once said, “You are either with us or you are against us.” Such a Manichean mindset excludes any alternative…such as opposition to the pointless and futile wars that the US has a long, well documented history of waging at tremendous cost, accompanied by widespread destruction, and with enormous suffering by the people of the country where the US decided to wage its war. Why not give peace a chance?

    1. Menzie Chinn Post author

      JohnH: I read the NYT article. I took it as an honest assessment of the difficulties faced by Ukrainian forces. However, when you write about the difficulties faced by Ukrainian forces, you seem positively salivating at the prospects that Russian forces will inflict large casualties on Ukrainian forces. There’s a difference.

      1. JohnH

        “You seem positively salivating at the prospects that Russian forces will inflict large casualties on Ukrainian forces.”

        You have the wrong interpretation…what I am doing is pointing to information that confirms my thesis that the US has embarked on yet another pointless, futile, and expensive war that, given recent history, the US will ultimately lose. I know this result is inconceivable to most commenters here, but they choose to ignore the outcomes in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Did these wars and their outcomes lead to improved human rights in any of these cases?

        From my perspective, I can’t understand why so many (like you) are salivating over sending ever more destructive fire power to Ukraine in what I see as a cruel, misguided effort to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian, where Ukraine and Ukrainians pay the ultimate price.

        Surely you have read Lloyd Austin’s admission that the goal of this war is to weaken Russia. Continued global preeminence, profits of military contractors, and control of natural resources and agricultural land could well be among other goals of the war. IMO official US concern about Ukrainian lives and human rights is mostly a public relations ploy to manufacture consent among Americans, a lesson people should have remembered from the “human rights” bunk promoted during the wars in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

        However, that ploy usually falls apart (Vietnam, Iraq) as the war drags on. It is already happening. “CNN Poll: Majority of Americans oppose more US aid for Ukraine in war with Russia.” https://edition.cnn.com/2023/08/04/politics/cnn-poll-ukraine/index.html

        This is consistent with what happened in Korea, Vietnam and Iraq, but not in Afghanistan, where the government and mainstream media kept the ongoing quagmire out of sight, out of mind.

        To me the path the US is taking is a very familiar one…and the government could better use our tax dollars mitigating climate change, providing health insurance for all, supporting education, and ending homelessness.

        1. pgl

          Wrong perspective? You clearly want the Ukrainian not have the resources to defend themselves against a war criminal. So yea – you salivating at the prospects that Russian forces will inflict large casualties on Ukrainian forces. You could just admit it.

          But no – Jonny boy has to continue to LIE. And read the room moron – everyone here knows you are a serial liar.

          1. JohnH

            “[JohnH] clearly wants…]”
            “[JohnH] clearly wants…]”
            “[JohnH] clearly wants…]”

            As usual you can prepare yourself for a load of BS from pgl…

            What I do want is for the US to stop getting involved in pointless and futile wars that it been repeatedly engaged in since WWII.

            Oh, I know, the warmongers here insist that this time it will be different!!!

    2. pgl

      You repeated this dishonest yawn? Oh wait – our host noted once again what’s wrong with your yawn.

      Maybe you enjoy being called out as a troll. Or did you not get why this post was directed at you?

    3. Noneconomist

      Hard to forget JohnH’s skepticism regarding Russian atrocities In Mariupol. He insisted we should remain skeptical of civilian casualties announced by major media outlets and by the UN. And certainly we should reject government sources too.
      All this while parading here as an anti-war hero whose primary concern was the little people damaged by unjust war.
      Of course, none of that sentiment applied to the people of Ukraine, a kleptocracy in John World, where, thankfully Russian freedom fighters were there to rescue them.
      Yes, Tonto. JohnH speaks with a very forked tongue.

      1. pgl

        Did you fall on the floor when Jonny boy told our host he has the “wrong perspective”? I certainly did.

        1. Noneconomist

          Your pants are on fire. You’ve been openly—and unabashedly—skeptical of civilian and military deaths, especially those reported by major news outlets both American and European.. And, naturally, you advise not to believe anything the government says (unless it’s the Russian or Chinese government doing the talking).
          You continue to preen here as anti war while remaining silent about an invading nation committing war crimes for all to see. Except , of course, you.
          Somehow, your tongue is getting even more, uh, forked.
          Now get out that soapbox and repeat your standard whines.

  7. Ivan

    In the mean time Ukraine took another Russian navy vessel out of commission using their home made naval drones. This was done in the main port used for Russian exports in the Black Sea. It will almost certainly increase insurance rates for all Russian exports through the Black Sea, reducing their ability to profit from having shut down the grain deal. Just like with the oil and natural gas don’t stop the products, reduce the profits. Putin may soon come back to that grain deal.

  8. pgl

    This news will get Jonny boy all excited. More Putin war crimes which Jonny boy will blame on Biden:


    Details: Intelligence reports suggest that a provocation involving a terrorist attack is planned at the Mazyr Oil Refinery in Gomel Oblast, bordering Ukraine. The planning is being carried out by a sabotage and reconnaissance group (SRG) of Russian military and intelligence officers deployed to Belarus under the guise of Wagnerites. Quote: “This Russian SRG is supposed to commit a provocation at the refinery, pretending to be ‘Ukrainian saboteurs’. The Russian Federation plans to blame Ukraine for the crime in order to try once again to drag Minsk into a full-scale war against our nation.
    The SSU obtained information on the planned terrorist attack in Belarus from several sources. Specifically, from the testimony of a Russian Armed Forces serviceman captured by Ukrainian defenders on the Zaporizhzhia front.” Details: The SSU says it found information in the Russian captive’s mobile phone concerning a ‘special mission’ at the Mazyr Oil Refinery. “The SSU cyber specialists found deleted communication with other executors, pictures of the facility, and some information about the operation in his phone,” the report said.

  9. Anonymous

    i am on Martin Luther King’s side from his Apr 1967 sermon on Vietnam.

    war is not a spectator sport….

    i have never been in combat, but i have lived and served on several likely nuclear ‘first strike’ targets.

    in ukraine neither side has met criteria of Christian just war teachings.

    as if there are conditions for voiding “thou shalt not kill’

  10. Willie

    Ukraine was invaded by a larger, implacable, brutal neighbor. They are David fighting Goliath. I don’t think we have done enough to support them.

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